Oh, boy. Another intelligent, informed, educated, articulate blogger, to help me in my ongoing efforts to actually BE dumber'n a box of rocks.

Welcome to the BlogBog, Ed. You'll be getting a thank-you note from my therapist, no doubt.

:)

ps: I'm also one of those select fellows you said allowed you to feel both young AND thin.

You're welcome.

Awesome! Wish I was there... let me know whenever you need assistance again. :)

So, will this blog be updated?

Dr. Stetzer,

Good to see you in the blogosphere. I am a new church planter and look forward to this site as a resource!

Ed - Did God give us brains so that we might remain ignorant? Piper's quote could be interpreted this way - what we might call the hyper-mystic approach to church planting. "Just rely on Jesus and methodology won't matter. Don't worry about learning anything practical."

On the other hand, Piper might be warning against the pride to which knowledge tempts us. I have seen many a planter who just knew that he was the next "it boy" of the kingdom. He went to a seminar, read a book and therefore new what everyone else was doing wrong and why his plant was a sure-fire Saddleback in the making. In fact, I think I was this prideful planter at one time.

So what did Piper actually mean by his comments?

By the way, it is good to have you on the web where we can all keep an eye on you!

Blessings,

Robby

A LifeWay man at BBC?

The Minnesota/Wisconsin Convention and NAMB advertising at their Church Planting conference?

What might this do to our pure "Southern Baptist identity?" ;)

On a more serious note ... I greatly appreciate your work and ministry. Your "Intro to Church Planting," (disguised as "Urban Evangelism") at the SBTS extension center in Nashville in Fall '01 changed my life and ministry. You taught at least one old redneck to change his ways! ;)

Geoff Baggett
http://geoffbaggett.wordpress.com

Ed,

Really cool that this is part of your massive job description. I am really looking forward to your blogging.

Regarding Piper's quote:

Could it be that he was warning of becoming dependent upon technique, methods, or principles rather than the power of the Holy Spirit? If a man cannot see the kingdom of God except by being born again of the Spirit, then no matter how much we know or do, it won't help. That is not to say that God uses an incarnational witness and proclamation of the gospel as the means of bringing someone to faith and repentance.

His quote reminds me of his warning against the professionalization of the ministry in his book Brothers, We Are Not Professionals more than a mere dismissal of preparing, learning, equipping, etc. While the conferences and training are great, it is possible that after having received so much knowledge and training you think that you can grow a church without God (whether recognizable or not). I think that is something worth being concerned about.

Robby,

It was an interesting comment, but I think the context gave the answer. He was speaking at a conference at his church where he hosted the seminar.

His point was strong-- only God grows a church and how he does it is up to him.

Good stuff to keep us humble and reliant on Christ.

Ed

Yep, Timmy, that is exactly what I think he was saying. But it sure was funny (and I am glad I did not keynote until this morning, long after that comment. Grin).

His whole talk was valuable and I am hoping to link to the video soon.

I am a Piper fan and will be sharing more about their church planting plans in the near future.

Ed

Ed, thanks for the link and glad to see you hitting the ground running. As a note to Timmy I'm with Ed that the Piper message was good, but I will admit to being a bit puzzled when he made the comment Ed referenced. The GCA conference has been full of great technical stuff, but it is anything but a tactician's conference. The gospel has been front and center here like few conferences I have been to.

So, I think Timmy's spin is probably correct here.

Timmy's spin? Ouch! :)

If I may, allow me to throw some old school flavor to the conversation which I think is relevant though not directly pertaining to church planting:

"None but he who made the world can make a Minister of the Gospel. . . . If a young man has capacity, culture and application may make him a scholar, a philosopher, or an orator; but a true Minister must have certain principles, motives, feelings, and aims, which no industry or endeavors of men can either acquire or communicate. They must be given from above, or they cannot be received."

- John Newton, Works, V:62.

Ed & Timmy - Based on your analysis I'm giving myself permission to feel good again about John Piper. Just glad I didn't have to follow him at the church planting conference!

Robby

Timmy - that wasn't mean to be a dis at your comment - I was just saying that I was wondering how to take Piper's comment because his comment could have been taken as a criticism of things like this conference. That's where the puzzlement came in - I was just saying that I think you understood the comment in a proper light.

Ed,

Thanks for your teaching at the GCA seminar here at Bethlehem Baptist. As I mentioned yesterday, I hope to invite you to come to Bethlehem to work with our church planters again sometime in the near future. Rest assured, Piper’s message was NOT a call for you to quit what you are doing, rather it was a call to all of us who (1) teach church planters and (2) all church planters themselves to go about our work in utter dependence upon the Lord who alone builds the church.

For the record, I took the time to transcript a larger chunk of John Piper’s closing admonition to the church planters on the first evening of the Global Church Advancement Seminar (http://www.gca.cc/). Piper closed his message which reflected on Christ’s words in Matthew 16:18 as follows:

“‘…I will build my church.’ (Matthew 16:18).

Jesus never said, I will build my social service agency. He never said I will build my parachurch ministry. He never said I will build my university or my Christian college or my Christian school. He said, “I will build my church.� One institution in all the universe is given this promise. ‘I will build my church.’ So, brothers, be encouraged that you are about something extraordinarily important.

Let me just give one last counsel or piece of advice. This comes right off of my devotions from this morning. I was reading in Mark 4 (vs. 26-27), where it says, ‘The kingdom of heaven is as if a man should sow seed on the ground. And then he sleeps and wakes, night and day. And the seed grows and sprouts. He knows not how.’

And my closing exhortation negatively is you don’t know how to grow the kingdom of God. Beware of conferences. Beware of books. Beware of seminars that tell you how to plant the church. You don’t know how to plant the church. The bible says you cannot know this. This is God’s doing. It is mysterious, it is deep, it is awesome. You go to bed at night. You get up in the morning. You sow your seed. And it sprouts. You know not how.

Watch out for know-alls. They don’t know how to grow the church. If they think they know, it isn’t the church they’re growing. This is a work of the sovereign God. It is a profound and supernatural mystery to open the heart of Lydia (Acts 16:14), to liberate the servant girl (Acts 16:18), to shatter the prison and the heart of the jailer (Acts 16:32-33).

So, my counsel is, brothers, give your life to sowing. Take this glorious Word of God and preach it. Preach Christ. Preach the scriptures. Preach the cross. Most of the people in the world don’t know what is in this book. And faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

‘I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.’ (Matthew 16:18).
And I will do the decisive building, says the Lord. Conferences and seminars and books that tell you YOU can do this, should not be listened to. They should direct you to Christ and to his word. And to the fact that we don’t know anything about how God saves sinners at the depth of their being.

This is a mystery. This is a glory. And amazingly he uses us. He won’t do it without the faithful proclamation of the word of God. Be faithful to the word and God will use you to build his church.

God bless you. I love what you are doing. I love you. May he make his name great in this conference.�

(END OF PIPER QUOTE)

Ed,

It is so good to welcome you into the blogdom. I just hope that you have something to say that we can understand! When blogging, put your comments on four shelves so all can relate. I can explain them in this way:
Shelf #1: People who ask, "Who is John Piper?"
Shelf #2: People who say, "I have heard of John Piper."
Shelf #3: People who say, "That sounds Piper-esque."
Shelf #4: People who say, "I am John Piper."

You are a blessing to the church planting world.

This comment is kinda late, I just now scrolled back to the beginning of Ed Stetzer's blog. Piper's comment reminded me of something I read.. I think it was Martyn Lloyd Jones, who warned his listeners to only read authors prior to the turn of the 19th century!