Ed (I know I we don't know each other, but calling you Mr. Stetzer just makes this post seem so formal, which I am not),

Your article is well written, thought out, passionate, and on target. Here are your four remedies:

1)Clue in to Gospel transformation.
2)Making the destination of sermons and conversations the Gospel.
3)Shake loose of the hero complex.
4)Focus on the cross.

And you know what. I agree with every one of em. And something that struck me was this: Not one of those things has anything to do with how big or how small your church is. Not one of them.

And our number one problem in American Christianity IMHO is: We've bought into the lie that size matters

And we've turned The Bride of Jesus into small business and we're competing against the business down the street and the quickest, laziest, and easiest way to measure myself in the competition is how many "sales" I've made this week. And in our hunger to get more "sales" we focus on the next slick "technique" to up our market share and make my business more attractive than yours. And then when they come pouring in, we trumpet the fact that because I had more sales than you, I'm obviously doing something right, and you are obvioiusly doing something wrong.

Then from there, all the up and coming businesses obviously want more sales themselves and they go to the "big company" to learn how their getting all them sales. This further fuels the whole evil process. The "small company" then gets jealous of the "big company" and resentment, anger, bitterness, jealousy, contempt, malice, backbiting all set in for the "small company" while pride, ego, haughtiness, and aloofness set in for the "bigger company"...

Because you see in business, we're not all on the same team. We're competing for those souls. But when the heck did that become the modus operandi for the Bride of Christ. We're not competing for those souls. We're on the same team. It ain't me vs. you, it's Jesus vs. Satan and we're on the same sideline. But because everything in America is "self made" and "competitive" we can't take time to help the small church down the street. We can't take time to applaud the "big church" up the street for the work that they are doing.

Cause God knows if I applaud the "big guy", my folks my go over there and then where would I be? How am I gonna get paid?

When it's a business instead of a community, numbers matter. When it's community, numbers don't matter, people do.

I agree with you Ed..whole heartedly. And as an aspiring church planter, my prayer is that God would help me understand and support my fellow teammates. Help me love the church and the Bride...

I'm not perfect, but I'm trying to get better...

Some of the anger against what is largely called "church" is well-placed because many of these churches have compromised the gospel, both in its essence and its application.

My issue with your article, Ed, is that you seem to minimize the fact that some churches deserve no claim to the title church. They have a deficient ecclesiology, that looks nothing like the NT.

Just as Christ condemned the Pharisees, so the true church must condemn and confront those who have compromised the gospel in this day and age. It is not enough to sit by and "do our thing." We must confront error.

That is not a call for needless polemic. There is a great deal of that. But there is far too little needful polemic, because there are far too many people willing to grant "church" status to gatherings who do not resemble a church in any fashion.

Marc,

Indeed, church is not all about the numbers. I agree. But, it is also not illegitimate to hvae numbers... and even to want to reach more people. I think the challenge is the right balance.

The Church Growth Movement focused so much on numbers, I think that some lost a focus on people. But, it also matters to me that tens of thousands of churches reach no one each year. I guess that 0 is a number, too, and I don't like that one as much. Grin.

Ed,

Couldn't agree more. The numbers focus is wrong on both sides. Small churches for hating it and not wanting to look outside to a lost and hurting world and big churches for thinking their numbers validate what their doing.

The Gospel is the only validation we need. Both sides have lost focus of the Gospel in a lot of instances. That's why I really agree with your article. By the way, you and Tim Keller are starting to sound more alike all the time.

Our methods (big church), nor our traditions (small church) will see a community transformed. Only the Gospel will transform and renew. Doesn't matter what size you are, focus on that and let the results (the size of the harvest) up to God and don't worry about it.

PS...Greetings from Ozark, MO. If you're ever in town, I know the leadership of our church would love to buy you lunch. We're an Acts 29 Church that's trying our dead level best to stay focused on the Gospel and nothing else. We'd love to host you.

Thanks for this Ed. My devotion yesterday included 2 Timothy 2:23-26

“Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.�?

I had to take stock of my own blogging and admit that a good part of my blogging has been devoted to the pursuit of controversy. So, that and your post are a good and appropriate slap back for me.

Larry,

I don't disagree with much of what you said... but I think the question is, "How do you address the concern?" and, "How should we speak of a soiled bride?"

How do we speak of a soiled bride? IMO, cautiously and quietly at first, addressing those who may simply not know better. The more public the error is, or the more egregious the sin, the more we must address it publicly. When the sin comes from those who should know better, whether because of training, experience, or cconfrontation, it becomes worse.

I think by and large, the church at large is weak because we have taken doctrine and purity lightly for so long that it seems almost too late to fix.

Gladly, we have the biblical doctrine of the local church in which I am responsible for my church and for what I do. No one answers to me ...

Ed,

I just came across your post on Catalyst Monthly, forwarded it to my leadership team for discussion, yet couldn't wait to respond to you! I resonate with this in our community (Chino, CA) - home to several mega-churches and 60+ small to mid-sized congregations. For too long, we've pointed the finger at each other, and to offer you some hope, we're rallying to address it and "be the church" rather than just go to church.

In November, we'll join 3 other local churches to cancel services and serve in our community on various projects like school cleanup, visiting seniors, and building a Habitat house. (We're following the Faith In Action model from Outreach Inc.). We'll then come back to our worship center and have a celebration service around noon. While this will definitely demonstrate the love of Christ to our city, the added impact will be the fellowship of four different church traditions working side by side in Jesus' name. And, can you tell, I'm just a little excited about it?! So, good stuff will happen, I know.

But with respect to the Bride, we often go deeper in offending her -- we start within our own church family! I've been working with a staff member lately on this very issue - loving the church family as Jesus does. As pastors, we can often get discouraged and lash out at the church for what attitudes "they" are having against us. Yes, they are stubborn sheep, but the reality is...they are in need of a Shepherd! Our job is to point them to Him and allow the Spirit to convict.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this!

Thanks for serving us, brother!

In Him,

Mike Spradlin
Valley Christian Church
Chino, California

I agree anger solves nothing and causes the others to close there ears.

We demonstrate in truth and love what we believe the Bible calls the Church to be and we are patient with the others.

We must love and forgive each other.

Thanks Ed.

What if we don't treat the Church Like His wife? What if we choose to treat Her like we want to, like we think things should be done? Are we treating Her like a scarlet? Are we treating Her the way He thinks or way we think? Do we really think He will honor us for the way we are treating Her? Or maybe we just don't believe in what it says in the Bible?

We say we are Christians, but do our action say that? Jesus said to be fishers of men, but have you ever gone fishing with dead worms? Worms that not only that are dead but stink too? I remember a Home Improvement where Tim and Al went ice fishing, they did not catch a thing. At the end of the show it was found out that Tim had been using a hand lotion, and repelled the fish. Aren't we doing that Ed?When people see us are they seeing Jesus or us saying we are one thing and then acting another....another mask?

We say we are going on mission trips to other countries when our own Church parking lots are empty, when our neighborhoods are in bad need of the Church doing out reach, but we are too busy going to other counties. Are we going to do mission work or so we can say we went on mission trips? Why don't we try saving or helping the guy next door? Why are the Local Churches empty? But we are going on vacation in China and calling it a mission trip.

Should we as the Church body as Jesus' children be out reaching in our own back yard first. We will put "come visit us on Sunday" out on our signs out front, but when did that change? We are waiting on them to visit us, before we visit them? Jesus never waiting on the people to come to Him, He went to them!

You go by the big Churches and in most part, they are doing ok, why?

I believe the Church, if we are going to call Her God's Bride, then we better start acting like it. We need to get back to the basis, right back to where we are suppose to be. Outreaching, helping the people in our back yards with their needs and then plant seeds. We have got it all confused, we think we are suppose to do the harvest too. Are trying to replace God with ourselves? Are we really buying into the Truth, The Light, The Way?
Why if we are then, why are the fruits of our spirits are rottening?

Churches do not want to hear this Ed. I have sent stuff to you too brother only not to get a response, I have been posting this kind of question on my Face book for a while now, and Churches do not only want to hear it, but they don't want us to tell them about it either. But then they scat their heads and wonder why they lots, their Churches are empty?

The Church that I have raised my family in since 1984, we have lost our focus, times are tough we focus on money. What happened to focusing on God and trusting Him. Instead we are putting our faith in leasing properties that upset the neighbors, now that is out reach. We have events at our Church to out reach and our pastor does not even show up.

The Ministry that My wife and I are involved in were giving a budget by the Church, we have not touched that money yet, we actually tried to give the money back. They allow us to meet every week and we do have heat and A/C, water etc....so give it back, they would not take it.

See this Ministry has focused on God! We Pray, Pray and then Pray some more.

The Church if it wants something different than what it has, it needs to get back to it knees and start asking God to search it's hearts. Then He will show us. But we must show Him we are back on our knees and looking at Him and not a budget.....is it about money or Loving People Like Jesus?

I challenge everyone to get back on their knees and Pray! What if we, that are complaining actually stepped up to the plate, out of our comfort zones and did something? I have tried, I will continue to try, I will continue to Share Jesus. Should we start with ourselves first? Do we are Christian Men Treat our wives as Christ Loves the Church? Do we ourselves Treat the Church Like the Bride Of Jesus? Are we Loving everyone Like Jesus did? What if we Love everyone that way, or like it might be the last time we saw them? Could we make a difference?

What if we realizes we too have a few mask we need help in removing, because we have tried it allow, but we keep putting it back on, what if we got on our knees and actually went and found a Christ Based Recovery group, or an accountability Partner or asked someone for help? How can we help others if we are looking through our own mask at them?

Jesus wants us all to step up to the plate and DEPEND on HIM, remember when we are at our weakest point, HIS strength is made perfect.

Praise God He can Fix Stupid, Because He has Fixed Me!

Ed,

Thank you for the excellent work you are doing for the Kingdom of God. I've read several of your books and enjoy reading your blogs.

I know you are a very busy man, but if you don't mind I'd like to ask a question on this statement, "On a daily basis, we witness the attack blogs where we can attack other churches like the pajamahadeen: sitting in pajamas, not reaching anyone, but being an expert on how everyone else is wrong..."

What is your view on how the Church should handle false doctrine? There are those in the Emergent Village who deny Isaiah 53 and other passages that speak explicitly about the substitutionary atonement of Christ. How should believers handle those who reject biblical doctrine & in favor of "redefining Biblical Christianity" in order to reach the culture?

Ed, I appreciate the fact that you stand with both feet firmly planted on the Gospel. I appreciate that you don't compromise biblical theology but allow your theology to inform how you do missions. I'm just wondering how as a respected leader in the missional conversation approach this question and remain faithful to the Gospel. Thank you for your time sir.

I've also been thinking/convicted about with whom and how to speak honestly about church issues.
What edifies the church,what needs to be rebuked publicly and what is just unproductive,unbecoming and displeasing to God.
I personally decided to make no public rants against the church. The offending church isn't the audience of those rants.
The non-believers, the disenfranchised,the wounded and all of Hell's army are that audience.
No one is ministered to by witnessing our attacks on each other; attacks do not edify nor are they Godly. Everyone is ministered to and God is glorified when we speak the truth in love.
The wisdom is,as always, in knowing the difference.
And we know what to do when we lack wisdom- right?

So,thanks. Out of my love for Christ and a desire to serve him well I accept your rebuke.

Well said Larry (both responses).
The true church is the bride of Christ. The true church is not an "institution". It is the body of believers who have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, denied themselves and are living sacrifices for their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. What we have in the so called "church" today are largely unregenerate people. That is the problem. The cause? 2 Timothy 4:3,4

Thank you for that article... I am not a senior pastor, but have opportunity to preach from time to time. God led me to Matt 16:16-20. It is my opinion that a lot of church members (including ours) don't know or don't corectly understand what (or who) the church is and what her purpose is. I will definitely use (with your permission, ofcourse) insights gleamed from your article. Thank you.

I would highly recommend a reread (or a first time read) of Francis Schaeffer's little book "The Mark of the Christian." It is a short, powerful argument that when those in the church fail to show love to other true, evangelical, Christ-following believers because of differences in non-essential doctrines, we are giving the world a legitimate reason to reject the claims of Christ. That is pretty heavy.

There are times when criticism is absolutely necessary, but the one bringing it better make sure they are bringing that criticism from a heart of love led by the Spirit and not from a heart of pride and self aggrandizement... Sadly, the nature of the blogs encourages the second and not the first (it is much easier to build up a readership by being a firebrand than meek).