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Teaching in Los Angeles (Updates 1, 2, 3, and 4 below)

Monday January 14, 2008   ~   9 Comments

biolalogo.gif
I will be teaching in L.A. this week at Biola University at their Talbot School of Theology. That will probably mean limited posts, but we shall see. I will write more soon on my time at Talbot and some upcoming teaching.

Update 1:It Begins

As expected, they are working me all day and night! I taught all day with a break for a nice lunch with the new Biola president, Barry Corey. (I was impressed.)

More soon... and the video folks are working on the CNN video and will post it here when it is ready.

Update 2: Brian Howard and Outreach Magazine

Brian Howard came by and lectured for a while. Brian is the pastor of Copper Hill Church and Los Angeles Director of Acts 29. He did a great job talking about how he has planted and grown Copper Hill Church and now how he his networking to plant churches throughout L.A.

0711_currentissue_nd.gifI also had the chance to catch dinner with the editors of Outreach Magazine, James Long and Lindy Lowry. I have started writing a column for them in each issue (called "As I See It"). In the current issue, I deal with the recent Willow Reveal study. Next issue will focus on outreach with a tie in to our recent unchurched research.

Tomorrow, Don Overstreet and a pastor from the Set Free Church (a church planting organization focusing on bikers, addicts, etc.) will come by.

Thursday, it will be Neil Cole, author of Organic Church, from Church Multiplication Associates.

Update 3: Wed. with Phil Stevenson, Set Free, and Rev! Magazine

Had a good Panera breakfast with Phil Stevenson, Director of Evangelism and Church Growth for the Wesleyan Church. Phil has been a friend for a while and is doing a great job in his new role. He was formerly director of church planting and has written a helpful church planting book called The Ripple Church.

ronrhonda2.jpgDon Overstreet, church planting missionary, and Pastor Ron from Set Free Church on Skid Row came by to share with the class today. We heard some incredible stories of God's work about the urban poor.

revcover.jpgThis evening was dinner with Alan Nelson of Rev! Magazine. Alan has a new book that I endorsed last year called Me to We: A Pastor's Discovery of the Power of Partnership. It is a good read.

Alan did a group interview of Gary McIntosh, Chip Arn, Phil Stevenson, and me for a future article on the church in America.

Mike Dodson and I just finished an article on church revitalization for a forthcoming issue of the magazine.

Update 4: Thursday with Neil Cole, Organic Churches, and the Foursquare

Today was my last full day in class. Neil Cole came by and lectured for the late morning. As always, he has the listener's spellbound as he shared an alternative story of church-- one built on relationships, multiplication, and church planting movements.

I always enjoy Neil's passion. You can read about his vision in Organic Church.

Here is what I wrote about him in our recent book, 11 Innovations in the Local Church (co-authored with Elmer Towns and Warren Bird).

Meeting Neil Cole is, well, anticlimactic. Here is a guy who has helped lead one of the more prolific church planting networks in the country. neilcole.jpg

He has written some significant books and he speaks all over. So I (Ed) was pretty excited when I landed at LAX and started driving over to his office.

Since getting lost in Los Angeles is as easy as falling asleep in a church business meeting, I splurged and got myself a GPS in the car. For each of miles from the airport to Neil's office, a nasally woman said "turn left" and "go three miles and take ramp on the right."

Anyway, my trusty GPS eventually announced, still in nasal tones: "arriving at destination." But there was nothing there. No sign, no parking. I assumed it was wrong, programmed it again, and drove around the block. Again I heard, "arriving at destination." So I gave up--when a woman tells you twice the right directions, you better listen. I got out and knocked on the door. And out came Neil Cole.

I don't mean to say that Neil himself is anticlimactic. Yes, he shrugs a lot and is very laid back, but it was his surroundings, not his persona, that gave me the letdown. You see, Neil, and everything Neil shapes, is "anti-slick." One of Neil's sayings is that "'simple' empowers Christians.�? And he lives it too-- his office is a mess, it's small and it's hot (air conditioning is too expensive to run, he says).

The couch where we finally settled had seen better days.

Neil's simple approach is not because he lacks money (although he does and you should send him some). It is because he has passion: a passion that the best way to propagate the gospel is with the idea that the church can and should be simpler and more organic--like Neil. Like Jesus. Everything Neil does (quoting him here and throughout) "is not bound by a large gathering or service we could reproduce quickly." That's the point--church should be simple and easy to reproduce. Normal people, with small messy offices and threadbare couches should plant and model planting churches led by ordinary people.

I ask Neil a lot about the numbers. I am a missiologist. I was born to count. I'm especially interested in new believers and new churches. But Neil explained, "If you are successful in a multiplication movement, than you cannot count them... if you can count them, you are not a multiplication movement." Neil is concerned about reaching people, but not concerned with the number and longevity of his churches. He instead is concerned with making disciples. "The greatest sin of today's church is self preservation.... If a church lasts one year and gives birth twice, it is a success."

Neil is the anti-attractional leader for the anti-attractional church. And Neil likes it that way. He does not want a big church; he wants a reproducing one. He does not want a quality church; he wants a transforming one. He explains, "We must lower the bar of how we do church and raise the bar on what it means to be a disciple."

Talking to Neil is just odd. Usually it takes about 5 minutes for the typical pastor in a growing church to work the conversation around to this week's attendance. Not so with Neil. He is about people--and he tells a lot of stories about them. Many transformative and some discouraging. "It hurts more to do church this way, but its still worth it."

Neil could be pastoring a good sized (what some would call) "real" church, but he sees that as a flawed system. He boils the principles down to a few "simple�? ideas:

1. What we are doing isn't working.
2. What's really happening around the world tends to be in house churches.
3. If multiplication is your desire, it will need to be simple, transferable, and ordinary.

For Neil, that simplicity boils down to the right DNA:

D- Divine Truth
N- Nurturing Relationships
A- Apostolic Mission

Neil believes we have created a culture of clergy co-dependency. The church leadership is the codependent and the parishioners are the irresponsible ones who are dependent. What is needed is radical detox. We have to stop relying on Christian leaders who tell us "when to stand up, when to sit down, and when to kneel."

Many house church advocates take swings at what they call (usually with a smirk) the "institutional church." Not so with Neil. "I think the old wineskins should hold the old wine... do not dismantle the old." Instead, Neil believes we should "invest in apostolic architects, not in builders... and don't put a lot of money in it." Neil lives it. His massive operation without a parking lot has a grand total of 1.5 employees while training 2,000 people in 12 states and around the world.

Not bad for a guy with a nasty hole in his couch.


burris.jpgI closed the evening with a nice dinner in Pasdena with Glenn Burris, General Supervisor of the U.S. Foursquare Church. I have been working with Glenn for two years, coaching and consulting with their movement. It has been an honor to be a small part of working with Glenn and Jack Hayford as they retool their movement to be more faithful to their calling.

Busy week... but, tomorrow I am home!

Posted on January 14, 2008 at 9:33 AM   ~   9 Comments

Tagged with: biola, church planting, Foursquare, howard, neil cole, outreach, stevenson

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9 Comments

By matt redmond on January 14, 2008 11:28 AM

ed,

i hate to do this and i am sure i am one of many...but is there anyway i could correspond with you? i am leaving the pca after studying baptism for about 6 months and my wife and i are dilligently praying, thinking and dreaming about planting. we are not sure we will fit with the sbc but we would like to at least talk with someone...and since you are the guru of missional church planting (read: shameless attempt at flattery)...

mbredmond@bellsouth.net

By Nathan on January 14, 2008 7:23 PM

My alma mater. But I spent much more time on philosophy than theology.

I'm interested to hear how it goes?!

Cheers.

By Ed Stetzer on January 14, 2008 9:34 PM

Matt,

Now, now, now... that is not the topic of the post.

Call my office and we can talk.

By Bob Cleveland on January 16, 2008 10:54 AM

Ed,

CB told me the 20th was "Sanctity of Life" day in the SBC. I wrote a poem some years ago, about abortion, that some people have said is very powerful. I'd like to make it available if anyone is interested in using it. You can see it at

http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com/2007/12/darkest-of-dark-clouds.html

No need to acknowledge .. just let me know if you know anyone who could use it.

By Ed Stetzer on January 16, 2008 5:28 PM

Bob,

A sanctity of life post is coming... let's stay on topic! Grin.

By matt redmond on January 18, 2008 8:32 AM

Ed,

Are you ever in your office?

By Ed Stetzer on January 18, 2008 8:52 AM

A good question, Matt... I would say "infrequently."

By Rick Brittain on January 18, 2008 12:17 PM

Okay Ed, I'll do the topic... I really like a lot of what Neil and others like Al Hirsch have to say about the church and mission / incarnation, etc. I also like a lot of what guys like Driscoll say about the "gathered" church and the ongoing value of attractional approaches. In my context, it appears that the "gathered" aspect is a big part of empowering the "missional" part. In other words, we do better "sent-ness" because of the community we are a part of (for a variety of reasons). I find myself wanting to engage with those who have a good take on the combination of these two sides of the discussion. What are the benefits and pitfalls of trying to do both? Can you do both? Does the institutional kill the missional? Etc. Etc.... Point me somewhere good as I grapple with these questions. Thanks!

By Jon on January 21, 2008 10:55 AM

Rick,

Those are some great thoughts - in a way, similar to where I am - in a way :).

You should look at what Bob Roberts and NorthWood Church are doing in Keller, TX. They're an extremely missional church that runs about 2,500 on weekends, has services, small groups, etc.

Their website is http://northwoodchurch.org and their church multiplication wing (where Bob blogs) is http://glocal.net

(hope it's ok to give that plug here :) )

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