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Thursday November 19, 2009 ~ 11 Comments
Right now, I am meeting with the Church Planting Leadership Fellowship. In this picture, Todd Wilson is teaching about starting churches through servant evangelism ministries.
Other presentations included Rick Howerton on Small Groups in church plants, David Garrison on Church Planting Movements, Gary Rohrmayer on denominational influence, Hutz Hertzberg on church planting assessment, and John Bailey on church planting systems. (I will post the available presentations on the blog later this week. Not all will be available.)
We have 45 people here from about 30 denominations committed to planting evangelical churches. Here are some of the groups here learning from each other: We talked research and a couple of the presentation were via video, including this research (see pic on the right) on assessment from Hutz Hertzberg's Ph.D. dissertation on church planting assessment. ---------------------------
You might find my opening words from the first meeting to be of some interest. In some ways, they relate to comments I made at the Advance09 panel a few months ago. It is a bad idea theologically, with bad results historically, for us to partner and jointly plant churches. But, it is a bad stewardship and irresponsible missiology for us not to find ways to learn from each other. We had a great meeting with much helpful interaction. The groups also break down into peer settings for idea sharing and prayer.
We are also undertaking two research projects with different denominations participating in each. One will focus on urban church planting and the other is on church planting assessment. We have now officially committed to do the assessment research and several denominations have signed on to co-sponsor. I am thrilled we could convene them and gather them together for this mutual learning. More soon... Posted on November 19, 2009 at 8:33 AM ~ 11 Comments Tagged with: 11 CommentsLeave a comment |
  
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Ed,
As I read down your list, am I mistaken not to see one african american denomination? Why is this? How can we bridge this gap?
Keep up the equipping.
Phillip
Church Planting?
Or Corporation Planting?
Or Denomination Planting?
Can’t seem to find “church planting” in the Bible.
Did Jesus ask "His disciples" to "plant churches?"
When you hear words that are not in the Bible?
don’t you wonder why we use them?
and where they came from?
Isn’t it challenge enough understanding?
the truth of the words that are written?
How much harder word's that we make up?
Doesn’t the Bible warn us about;
The commandments of men?
The doctrines of men?
The philosophies of men?
The traditions of men
that make the Word of God
of non effect?
Making the word of God of none effect
through your tradition...
Mark 7:13
Hmmm? A simple word, church?
What do most people understand
the word “church” to mean?
Building with a steeple on it?
Is that in the Bible?
Pastor in a pulpit preaching to people in pews?
Is that in the Bible?
That’s what the world thinks,
the unbeliever, isn’t it?
Isn’t that what the so called “local church plants”
has accomplished with four buildings on
four corners in a lot of “local towns?”
Haven't we deceived the people
we’re supposed to be reaching out to?
How many will know that “The Church of God?”
The ekklesia of God? The called out one’s of God?
Are the habitation of God?
The redeemed of the Lord?
The body of Christ?
The Israel of God?
And Jesus is the head of the body, "the Church?"
Does God dwell in buildings made with
the hands of men? Or does He dwell in people?
Did Jesus shed His blood for;
a building, a denomination,
an institution, an organization, a corporation?
Should we call a corporation, "The Church?"
Will people know that “The Church of God?”
Are kings and priests unto God?
The bride of Christ?
The servants of Christ?
The sons of God?
Led by the spirit NOT led by man.
Disciples of Christ?
Learners and students of Christ?
Ambassadors for Christ?
How many will know, in the Bible,
no one ever went to church?
How many will know, in the Bible,
you become “the Church?”
And hear His voice? And follow Him?
Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice,
that he might instruct thee.
Deuteronomy 4:36
Church? Hmmm?
I will build my church
the Lord added to the church
great fear came upon all the church
great persecution against the church
Saul, he made havock of the church,
entering into every house
they assembled themselves with the church
Herod the king stretched forth his hands
to vex certain of the church
and had gathered the church together
And being brought on their way by the church
they were received of the church
set them to judge who are least esteemed
in the church. Hmmm? Must be a misprint?
If therefore the whole church
be come together into one place
Christ is the head of the church
Christ also loved the church,
and gave himself for it
feed the church of God,
which he hath purchased
with his own blood
gave him to be the head
over all things to the church
the church is subject unto Christ
he is the head of the body, the church
And other sheep I have,
which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring,
and they shall hear my voice;
and there shall be one fold,
and one shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold - One Shepherd - One Voice.
If Not Now, When?
In His Service. By His Grace.
Great line-up - Glad Mission America Coalition is at the table.
How can Free Will Baptist get in on this type of fellowship?
Philip,
Everyone was invited, but none come (although there were some persons of color who came from the different denominations involved). However, it concerned me as well.
I would check out Church Planting in the African American Community (Hozell Francis) for some helpful cultural insights as to why that might be.
God bless,
Ed
Wow, Amos, that was helpful.
Phil, they just need to send an email, call, or post a message and we will send them an application.
Ed
Hi Amos, I was wondering if you're not in favor of church plantng because this phrase is not used in the Bible? Lots of words we use today are not in the Bible: Trinity, soteriology, ecclesiology, eschatology, antinomianism, etc.
Hi Ed, how do I find out where and when these Church Planting Fellowships meet? What are the qualifications needed to be invited to them?
Ben - You wrote...
“I was wondering if you're not in favor of church planting because
this phrase is not used in the Bible?
Lots of words we use today are not in the Bible:”
I agree with you there Ben. We use lot’s and lot’s of words “not” in the Bible.
It’s debatable whether that’s productive or not.
The words that you used as an example sounds like lawyer speak. ;-)
“soteriology, ecclesiology, eschatology, antinomianism”
And we know what Jesus thought about lawyers and the religious leaders.
All that gnat and camel stuff. All those heavy burdens to be borne.
Don’t lawyers today use peculiar big words we can’t understand
so we need them to write the contracts and interpret them. (Get paid?)
Where in the world did all those big words come from anyway?
Were they all thought up in some seminary somewhere? ;-)
I’m glad Jesus didn’t use to many of those funny big words.
Went to your website, looks like a nice bunch of folks and interesting ministry.
One to one Bible studies, small group meetings and morning prayer meetings.
Thank you Jesus...
Also found this in your “Mission Statement.”
“3 We believe that the Bible is inspired by God; that it is the truth;
that it is the final authority in faith and practice.”
Hmmm? The Bible? Final authority in faith and practice?”
Not only do we practice “using” lot’s of words “not” in the Bible.
We also practice “misusing” words that “are” in the Bible? Yes?
Like “Church.”
If you reread the long, long, comment you’ll see the questions
are about “the traditional” practice of the word ”Church.”
And also left a bunch of verses with the word “church” (ekklesia)
to get a feel for what the Bible says about “The ekklesia of God.”
Jesus is the head of the body, (the ekklesia, the called out,) the church.
But really - What do most people see when we say the word “church?”
Building with a steeple on it?
Pastors in pulpits preaching to people in pews?
Institution? Organization? Denomination? Corporation?
Anything but what the Bible says about ”The ekklesia of God.”
Is any of that “practiced or found in the Bible?”
In my experience, most Denominations/Corporations go to a place
and plant a satellite 501 (c) (3), non profit, tax deductible, religious corporation.
They have the same “I believes,” same or similar form and function.
Pastors, paid professionals, with diploma’s to hang on a wall and “Titles,”
(Senior Pastor, Youth Pastor, Doctor, Clergy, Reverend, Right Reverend, etc.)
are hired by a satellite and move from one satellite corporation to another. Yes?
Is any of that “practiced or found in the Bible?”
I thought elders were appointed from “within” a gathering of disciples of Christ?
Someone the other saints, brethren, already knew, respected, and esteemed.
Practice seems to be my hang up with “Church planting.”
Did Jesus ask "His disciples" to practice "Church Planting?"
Did “His disciples” practice “Church Planting?”
If Jesus didn’t? If His disciples didn’t? Why do we?
Isn't the Bible the final authority in faith and practice?
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold - One Shepherd - One Voice.
If Not Now, When?
Be blessed in your search for truth... Jesus.
Amos,
Your comments have caused me to reflect on Mathew 28: 16-20. This is a passage many Christians refer to as "the great commission", a term I have heard all of my "church" going life. Although the term was not used by Jesus and is not biblical, most bible reading Christians know it refers to Jesus' command to his disciples. I am sure you recall Jesus tells them to "go and make disciples" and "teach them to obey what I have commanded you".
Although "church planting" is not a biblical term, the idea of sharing the gospel of Jesus is. All Christians do not perform "the great commission" the same way. You may flesh out this command one-on-one in your town with nonbelievers. I may flesh out this command by reading the bible and praying with my children. Ed and his colegues may flesh out this command by creating venues where believers worship a magnificent God and nonbelievers hear about a forgiving Jesus. (They have given this act the term "church planting") If Mathew 28:16-20 influences them to "plant churches", I think we should pray for these ministries, that Jesus would reveal himself through their efforts.
I am grateful for Christians that planted/started/formed/began the church I attend 200 years ago. I wonder how many have come to know Christ in and through that place we call a "church":)
Blessings,
Chris
Chris
I’m also am grateful that you know Christ.
And did that happen because of a 200 year old “Church?”
Who gets the glory for your salvation?
Most don't start out wanting to "steal the glory" that belongs only to Jesus.
They just don't refuse it when it comes.
When folks get saved in “The Roman Catholic Church,”
did that happen because of “The Catholic Church?”
Their Traditions? Their hierarchy? Their Popes?
Their Sacrements? Jesus still on a crucifix? Worship of Mary?
Their “Church Planting?”
If someone asked, would you recommend someone stay
in the Catholic Church? Why not?
Haven’t they been around for 1700 years?
Don’t they talk about Jesus?
Don’t they read and preach the Scriptures?
And a little bit extra?
How about
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?
They believe the Bible - And a little bit extra?
How about
The Jehovahs Witness’s?
They say they believe the Bible - And a little bit extra?
How about “your” 200 year old “church?”
What is the - “And a little bit extra” going on there?
Every one that I have attended had - “And a little bit extra.” Yes?
What if someone has a love for the truth;
What would you recommend then?
What about Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Where do you draw the line?
You wrote,
“I am sure you recall Jesus tells them to "go and make disciples" and
"teach them to obey what I have commanded you".”
Yes, I do recall. This is an important verse.
“Disciples of Christ” are to teach what Jesus has commanded “His Disiples.”
Has Jesus set up boundries on what “Disciples of Christ” are to teach?
Are “Disciples of Christ” alowed to “add” to what He taught “His Disciples?”
A “Disciple of Christ”
Will NOT;
Lord it over...
Exercise authority...
Honor themselves...
Seek their own glory...
Be called rabbi/teacher...
Be called Master/leader...
Receive honor from man...
When someone takes a "Title" today not in the Bible;
Senior Pastor, Youth Pastor, Reverend, Right Reverend, Doctor, Clergy, etc...
Don't they get the "Title" - “And a little bit extra.”
Power, profit, prestige, recognition, reputation, honor, glory, etc...
How do “you” reconcile the use of the word "leader"
when “Jesus” in Mat 23:10, told “His disciples” not to be called leader?
His disciples “all” called themselves "servants,"
none called themselves "leaders." None? None.
None called themselves "servant-leader." None. Hmmm?
In the Bible, how many congregations are...
“led by a pastor?” Hmmm?
In the Bible, how many are “called pastor?”
What is the - “And a little bit extra” going on here?
Ever try pointing that out
to someone with that "Title?" Ouch! :-(...
Be blessed...
Did you say that we shouldn't cross denominational lines and plant or did I miss it? It seems like many of the denominations plant churches that you have to do research to find out what they believe. Even inside the services you have very few divisive worship elements. Why not plant together? I had a friend (who graduated from a baptist school)who went to a C of G church to interview for a Ministerial position. They told him that they took the best of what Church of God was and did away with the scary stuff that might scare people away. Fact is they were blurring the denominational lines.