J.D. and I have been friends for a long time (he was once my grader when I taught at Southern) and later was my successor in that role. I know him well enough to tell you that his first name is "Jervis," which is pretty weird if you ask me. ;-)
His new book is very helpful and I now use it as one of my required textbooks when I teach church planting. So, I asked J.D. to talk about his new book and the state of church planting here on the front end of the 21st century. Read the interview, buy the book, and be sure to jump into the comments where J.D. will respond to your questions and comments.
With all of the books out there on church planting, what is the purpose of this one?
The purpose of this book is to provide a single, practical, work that addresses the biblical/theological foundations, several critical missiological principles, a few historical perspectives, and many contemporary issues related to church planting in the 21st century.
I have been involved in church planting in the U. S. for the past decade, including almost twelve years of teaching in the classroom. While there are many excellent books on church planting which I use, and will continue to use in the classroom (especially Planting Missional Churches J ), I wanted a book that was a good introductory work written for both church planters and other church leaders. Since there are many church planting books available, I had the benefit of drawing from the wisdom and experience of others when writing. The subtitle summarizes the book: "An Introduction to the Whats, Whys, and Hows of Global Church Planting"
I'm assuming that there is something significant about the words Global Church Planting. Am I correct?
Absolutely! This book is not a model-specific book for one particular context. While I have included a chapter on models of church planting, the focus is on understanding the principles that can be translated to cultures and societies throughout the world and how to make appropriate application of those principles to the field. While acknowledging my pastoral and church planting experience has been exclusively connected to the U. S., I worked hard to write with a much wider audience in mind.
What is unique about this book?
In addition to being a church planting book not specifically about a methods or models, but rather on the application of principles and contextualization of methods, there are two other unique aspects. First, I begin by ironically writing that ultimately the book is not about church planting, but Kingdom expansion through disciple-making. While there are many ways to plant churches, biblical church planting is evangelism that results in new churches. Therefore, a heavy focus of this book is about Kingdom growth through the multiplication of disciples, leaders, and yes, churches. As the gospel transforms lives and churches are planted, those new Kingdom citizens must set out to expand the Kingdom by living according to a Kingdom Ethic, thus transforming their societies with the gospel.
Second, this book is a call to understand that the primary biblical expression of the church planter is that the church planter is a missionary, doing evangelism, gathering new believers together to be the local church, and raising up elders from within (e.g., Acts 13-14) the community. In the western Church, especially in the U. S. and Canada, we have lost the New Testament understanding of the apostolic functions of church planters. For example, the majority of the church planting books and conferences geared toward a North American audience expect the person who plants will also pastor that church. While I'm not opposed to such a model (my experience has been with such a model) and support it in certain contexts, the weight of the Scriptures is on the church planter functioning more after an apostolic pattern--as a missionary who raises up pastors.
Can you give me a quick overview of the content?
Certainly. The book is divided into four major sections. The first, and most important section, is "Discovering Biblical and Theological Foundations". In this section, I spend much time addressing ecclesiology, the Holy Spirit, Prayer, Spiritual Warfare, Evangelism, Discipleship, and Leadership development as related to church planting. Section two is "Discovering Missiological Principles," and includes chapters related to multiplication strategy development, receptivity, contextualization, role of partnering churches, and church planting teams. The third section, "Discovering Historical Paradigms," examines the church planting activities of the Moravians across the globe and the Methodists and Baptists on the American frontier. The final section looks at several contemporary issues that church planters are facing. Chapters are devoted to family matters, church planting models, overcoming objections to church planting, urban church planting, tentmaking, the apostolic understanding of church planters, and church planting movements.
This is a massive work. Is this book just for the scholar?
I know. It can choke a horse! I use my personal copy as a stepstool when I change light bulbs!
Seriously. No. It is not just a textbook for the scholar. Prior to his death, Ralph Winter graciously wrote an endorsement for the book that relates to this matter. He wrote, "Books about on church planting. Few go into such sweeping and helpful detail. This is not a book written by an ivory tower scholar but by a true scholar activist." While comprehensive, this book is practical by nature. As I note in the book, church planters must be both outstanding theologians and missionaries. To be one without the other is a liability to the Kingdom. While much of this book involves a heavy amount of the theology and missiology undergirding church planting practice, I keep pushing the reader toward practical application of the book's contents. I partially make this push by concluding each chapter with several application-related questions for individuals and groups.
Church planting has really come into the spotlight in the last several years. Are we getting better at it? If we are, what do you think has been the key to that success. If we aren't, why?
I think we are improving in some areas and in other areas we are missing the mark. We have made great progress in the area of training guys to be pastors of newly planted churches. And I believe we will (and must) continue to advance in this area. Many church planting conferences today are not so much about church planting, but about how to lead the church you just planted. I believe such training provides very important information. I know that having served as a pastor of established churches and as a pastor in new churches the ministry contexts are very different, with each having their own unique challenges. I am very excited about what I am seeing in the area of pastoral training. I also think we have made great progress in the area of networks. We are now seeing church planters networking together for accountability, encouragement, and resourcing in ways that were not taking place ten years ago. A third advancement is in the area of raising the banner for the family. Today, unlike a decade ago, church planters are being strongly encouraged to guard their families. The reason I believe we are making significant progress in these areas is because church planters are approaching their ministries as both learners and as leaders. They are eager to learn from one another (believing that they do not have all the answers), while at the same time desire to share what they have personally learned in their journeys (believing that the Lord has given them some truth to pass along to assist others).
While we have grown in many areas, in other significant areas, we have made little progress. Even with all the discussions about being missional since the late 1990s, we still do not think and act like missionaries in our church planting endeavors. First, in the United States and Canada, in particular, we have an ecclesiology problem. There is too much of our cultural Christianity affecting our understanding of the local church, and not enough of the Bible. The greatest problem in church planting today is an ecclesiology problem. How we answer the question, "What is the local church?" will affect everything we do in church planting. We are attempting to plant churches that reflect too much of our cultural preferences and pragmatic tendencies, rather than biblical churches that are contextualized to the people. Second, and closely related to this problem, is the fact that we still do not understand that the primary biblical model for the church planter is that of a missionary who will plant churches and raise up pastors for those churches. There is little room for the missionary at the church planting table in the United States and in Canada. Third, and closely related to these other two challenges is the fact that biblical church planting is evangelism that results in new churches. What I mean by this statement is that church planting, as described in the Scriptures, is about conversion growth and not transfer growth. With approximately 75% of the United States and Canada not having a relationship with Jesus (and another four billion people across the globe), we must stop praising and rewarding transfer growth church planting strategies/methods and begin to focus on highly reproducible, multiplication strategies that lead to the making of disciples from out of the harvest fields. I write extensively about these concerns in the book.
What are a few other books on church planting that you believe are important to understand?
There are several excellent books out there today. I'm sure I'm going to forget some of them here. . . . Your book is a very good book-- and I promise I did not write this because this is your blog. I use and recommend Planting Missional Churches to many people. My guess is that most of those reading this blog are familiar with your work. Tom Steffen's book Passing the Baton: Church Planting that Empowers is an excellent resource. Of course, if there ever was a "classic" in church planting literature, David Hesselgrave's book Planting Churches Cross-Culturally would be at the top of the list. Aubrey Malphurs' book Planting Growing Churches for the 21st Century and Bob Logan's Church Planter's Toolkit have influenced countless numbers of church planters over the years. While not a book, Bob Logan and Neil Cole wrote the outstanding resource Beyond Church Planting a few years ago. The most influential book on my thinking has been Charles Brock's book Indigenous Church Planting: A Practical Journey. Of course, I'm a little biased, but I also think my other book The Barnabas Factors: Eight Essential Practices of Church Planting Team Members is also important to read.
J.D., I'm interested in one day starting a church. What are some suggestions you have for a young guy like me? I've only been in one church and that is as the music guy (currently still serving). Should I look for an opportunity to be in a teaching or more pastoral role to get some experience in that before I start a church? Also, how do you decide where to start a church?
I recently published a review on this book at my website. My conclusion was that "Though this book is used in seminary courses, it is a must own for anyone looking or is interested in planting a church. No matter what your context is, DCP offers advice and tips for everyone from a biblical understanding. Having gone through a four-day church planting basic training three years ago myself, I am grateful for this valuable resource today."
You can check out the rest of the review: http://christianbooknotes.com/2009/discovering-church-planting-by-j-d-payne/
JD,
Thank you for stating that the planter should not remain to be the pastor. I have gone into planting with the desire that God would raise up men from the community to pastor. At what point do you consider the planter able to move on?
Jacob,
For starters—ask yourself: What is the Lord saying to you during your times with Him? What are other brothers and sisters saying to you about you being involved in such missionary activity? If you are married, what is your wife saying? I would spend much time in prayer regarding this matter and seeking wisdom from other brothers and sisters. Talk to other church planters. What are they telling you? Read about church planting, attend conferences, and check out web sites (see the links section at my web site for a large gateway to church planting sites: www.NorthAmericanMissions.org
You may find a church planter’s assessment process to be helpful as well. You may even what to consider serving with a church planting team for a season to get some insight to this ministry.
There is no substitute for ministry experience. But remember, our Father uses what He gives us. I don’t know of your present ministry situation, but I’m sure it will be valuable to you in church planting labors. I have known guys with little to no church planting experience to plant great churches for the Kingdom.
You asked where to start. I talk about this in the book. But here is a quick summary: Ask yourself: Has God led you to a specific place/people? If so, then do what He says as He says it! If not, then I would say that you need to prayerfully consider two things: 1) Where is the greatest need for the gospel? and 2) Where are the most receptive people to the gospel? A wise steward takes these matters into consideration when developing church multiplication strategies.
J. D.
Thank you, Terry!
J. D.
Philip,
I'm thankful to hear of your desire.
Just for clarification (and before there is a book burning in my honor), I did not say the planter should not remain to be the pastor. There are times when this model is appropriate.
I said the weight of the New Testament evidence is that the church planter is a missionary, planting churches and raising up biblically qualified elders (pastors)--Acts 13-14. It is my desire that we return to a more biblical model in our missionary labors.
You asked about when to move on. A church planting team cannot put a time limit on this matter. For the sake of space I would say keep in mind a few things: 1) What is the Spirit doing with the new church in the sanctification process? Where are they--as a church--in their walk with the Lord? 2) Are biblically qualified leaders in place? 3) What is the Spirit leading your team to do? and 4) Remember, that the Apostle Paul did not abandon the new churches. He remained in contact with them through others, personal visits, and letters. Stay in contact with the new churches.
Let me direct you to Tom Steffen's book Passing the Baton: Church Planting that Empowers. He addresses this issue specifically from his church planting endeavors in the Philippines. In light of what is in the Scriptures, think through what Steffen writes and how it would apply to your context.
J. D.
I must make a comment.
Ed--you had to use that picture!!!
For the record, the above picture is of my evil twin brother, D. J.
J. D.
Hi JD,
Thanks for all your work in writing this book and for passing along your insights. I have two questions I'd like to get your responses to:
1. What are 3 critical questions to ask a person who senses God's calling/invitation to join Him in His mission of evangelism that results in new churches?
2. The term "church planter" can be a bit presumptuous at times. To what degree do we need a new term to describe those who pursue evangelism that results in new churches? With that, what terms have you encountered that more accurately describe the function of such a person? (Ok, that was 3 questions, not 2!)
Thanks!
Jon
Hey Ed and JD, thanks so much for taking time for us!
Based off your experience and observing others, are there "target goals" you recommend for those of us preparing to plant such as
target start-up dollars
target launch team size
target days to be in the community before the official launch.
I know it will be different for everyone, but was just wondering if there are some general principles you've found helpful in these areas. Thanks
Jon,
1) Wow! Only three? Why so few? Help! I feel trapped!
I think there are a multitude, assuming that such missionary labors is the Lord's will for a person. Do you have an intercessory prayer team? Is your family on board as well? What are your gifts/passions/strengths/limitations? Can you describe the gifts/passions/strengths/limitations of your team? Do you and your team have the same vision? Do you and your team share the same theology, missiology, and ministry philosophy? Do you know the people to whom you are called: 1) geographically, 2) demographically, 3) culturally, 4) spiritually, 5) historically, 6) politically, and 7) linguistically? What is your strategy for engaging, evangelizing, and teaching the people to obey all that Christ commanded?
Even with all of these questions, I'm sure I probably missed some critical ones as well.
2) I talk about this matter in chapter 24. We need to make a distinction between "missional pastors" who will plant, pastor, send out others to plant churches, and "apostolic missionaries." Space will not allow me to address the redundancy with this latter title or deflate the fears of some that I'm theologically deviant for using the "a" word. But please note: I use apostolic as an adjective to describe the work of such missionaries who will raise up/equip pastors for the churches, and not as someone on par with the Twelve or having unbiblical authority over churches.
However, ALL church planters (if they are following the pattern as described in the Bible) should (to use your words) "pursue evangelism that results in new churches."
J. D.
Brian B.,
There are many factors that will affect the "goals" you mention. In light of this matter, I'll attempt to give you some food-for-thought.
Also, there are many men out there, much wiser than me, who have written on this in several books.
Your church planting model (and strategy) will affect start up costs, team size, and days in the community before a launch.
If you are using a launch methodology (as you mention above), then you are probably going to need a good amount of financial resources, and several high caliber team members. Also, with this paradigm, you will probably want to build a core group, before launching--rather than simply launching with a team.
So, to answer your question. . . . while I've heard some who advocate using a launch method that you probably need $150,000-$250,000 in the bank, I don't believe you need that much money. I've seen church planters launch with MUCH less money; and they have effectively planted churches.
I generally limit a team to 2-8 people and a core group as 20-50.
Regarding the time in the community, again context matters here, and how well your people are able to engage the community with the gospel. I think 12-18 months is a good time--including what some people refer to as having a few "preview services". However, if I recall correctly, Searcy and Thomas advocate launching fairly quickly. . . . but they did write the book Launch.
J. D.
I'm looking for books concerning not only church planting, but missional church movements. Here are a couple I'm considering:
ReJesus: A Wild Messiah for a Missional Church by Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch
and
Planting Missional Churches by Ed Stetzer
Any suggestions or further recommendations apart from these which have now joined my list:
Missional House Churches: Reaching Our Communities with the Gospel, The Barnabas Factors: Eight Essential Practices of Church Planting Team Members , and Discovering Church Planting: An Introduction to the Whats, Whys, and Hows of Global Church Planting.
Thanks for your blog!
Brian B.,
There are many factors that will affect the "goals" you mention. In light of this matter, I'll attempt to give you some food-for-thought.
Also, there are many men out there, much wiser than me, who have written on this in several books.
Your church planting model (and strategy) will affect start up costs, team size, and days in the community before a launch.
If you are using a launch methodology (as you mention above), then you are probably going to need a good amount of financial resources, and several high caliber team members. Also, with this paradigm, you will probably want to build a core group, before launching--rather than simply launching with a team.
So, to answer your question. . . . while I've heard some who advocate using a launch method that you probably need $150,000-$250,000 in the bank, I don't believe you need that much money. I've seen church planters launch with MUCH less money; and they have effectively planted churches.
I generally limit a team to 2-8 people and a core group as 20-50.
Regarding the time in the community, again context matters here, and how well your people are able to engage the community with the gospel. I think 12-18 months is a good time--including what some people refer to as having a few "preview services". However, if I recall correctly, Searcy and Thomas advocate launching fairly quickly. . . . but they did write the book Launch.
J. D.
Thanks, Ron for your encouraging words regarding my books!
While I have not read it, Missional Press, recently published Movements that Change the World by Steve Addison. I'm not sure if this book is what you are looking for, but it just came to mind.
There is a growing number of books with "missional" as the subject coming off the presses. A simple Amazon or Google search from time-to-time will probably keep you up to date with the literature.
J. D.
J.D.,
Thanks for being available here and for your book. Just wanted to say a hearty amen to your ...
"However, ALL church planters (if they are following the pattern as described in the Bible) should (to use your words) "pursue evangelism that results in new churches."
Lookingforward to getting, reading and adding the book to my bibliography for the church planting classes I teach at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.
Thanks, Marty. I'll Amen your "Amen"!
J. D.
Here is a "global" question for you guys.
I am very interested in church planting and I serve on a pioneering team in a Muslim, Middle Eastern counrty where there is no indigenous church and believers only exist in handfuls.
Some of my collegues object to "church planting" in our context for the following reasons (found here: http://www.joshuaproject.net/assets/InsiderMovements.pdf ):
"The term “Church Planting” implies inventing a new structure. No matter how contextualized the “church” may be, it is still a new structure that is foreign to the people group. Church planting work of various levels of contextualization is necessary in some contexts. However, our primary desire is for the spontaneous spread of culturally relevant Gospel movements through pre-existing networks. We believe that the extended family unit is the primary and foremost biblical model of ecclesia."
JD and/or Ed, can you please interact with this objection? (Or perhaps the entire article? This question of "churchless Christianity" and "Muslim followers of Jesus" is one of the big six issues for discussion at Lausanne 2010.) I am really looking forward to hearing your responses.
Hey Ed and JD-
I'm part of the Bluegrass Band from Southern that is doing work in Taiwan this semester. We met when you were here for the Upstream Collective.
Our group was the brainchild of JD. He thought bluegrass would be a good outreach to the people of Newfoundland, Canada. We played there, had some success, and thought we would try in a different context.
Now, we're in Taiwan. Very different context...
Just an interesting note (to me) and thought y'all might like to know.
Blessings,
Jeff
Warrick,
Wow! This is a hot topic! I feel that I'm limited by space to address this question to your satisfaction (especially, since many books and articles have been written about it). Also, in attempting to respond to your question in such space, I hope I do not end up missing your question.
If my answer it not sufficient, feel free to email me at jpayne@sbts.edu if you would like to continue the conversation.
Let me begin by saying that my ministry experience has not been in the Muslim world.
Also, I do not go beyond C4. I believe that planting C5 churches crosses the line into an unhealthy zone that leads to syncretism and accommodating to the culture too much.
I am all for keeping it simple and highly reproducible by the people. Roland Allen is one of my heroes.
However, I also believe that church planting must also be radically biblical. The irreducible ecclesiological minimum (IEM) must be present in order for a church to be planted. The IEM is designed to exist any where, among any people, at any time in history. To have any thing less than the IEM is not a biblical church. It may be a Bible study, seeker group, preaching point, but not a church.
Also, remember the same Apostle Paul who asked for prayer that the gospel would spread rapidly and with honnor (2 Thes 3:1), was the same man who taught the whole council of God (Acts 20:27). The point is that we are called to not only reach the people, but to teach them all that Christ commanded (Matt 28:20).
And remember, we are told to make disciples, not plant churches. It is out of a disciple making movement that churches are planted.
Well, I gave it a shot with the space I have. Feel free to write and let's keep talking.
J. D.
Jeff G.
Keep on pickin' and grinnin'! I was rockin' it Scruggs style this morning on the ipod!
Tell the rest of the group that I said hello!
J. D.
Hey Dr. Payne-
I'll pass your hello along and I look forward to reading this book.
Blessings,
Jeff
I can hardly wait to recieve my copy!
A couple of comments, I loved the way that you refereced the North American context in the interview! Those of us up here feel like the "red-headed step-child" of NA evangelicalism most of the time. Most authors seem to assume that only US church planters are reading them.
Second, I love it when baptists begin to talk about the "importance of networks" and their value for "accountability" and other great things. LOL Hey, Y'all we have been doing this for centuries now, it's called Presbyterianism!
peace,
Hi Dr. Payne,
I didn't have a question, but I just wanted to say thank you. You were my professor for Intro to Church Planting at Boyce, which was an excellent course. You were the first to challenge me to think of the church not as an event or a "place where" things happen, but fundamentally as a body - a people.
It has been with me since and has transformed my ministry.
Thank you.
Blessings!!!!
Patrick