Ed: Vintage Faith Church is not a typical place of worship. Talk about what distinguishing characteristics it has in terms of practice, preaching, and ministry.
Dan: One great thing about planting a church is that you get to start fresh without having to change something already in existence. So when we were planting Vintage Faith Church, we asked the question "What would a missionary coming to Santa Cruz do if they were going to start a new church here?" There is a lot of freedom that I believe the Scriptures give us in terms of how we go about being the church on mission. As we began listening to local people like a missionary would, we realized that we would need to break a lot of stereotypes about church and Christians and build trust. Santa Cruz is an extremely liberal and progressive town with younger adults and university students who don't have too much favor towards the church and Christianity.
So if you come to our church building right now, you'd find that we changed a large section of the building into a coffeehouse/art gallery/music venue that is open 7 days a week. It isn't a "Christian coffeehouse" in terms of it only being for those who come to the church meetings on Sundays. But throughout the week you see the place filled with people who are not Christians studying and having meetings. It is a huge trust builder and bridge builder for us in our community. You'd see that we are really trying to stress that the "church" is not the Sunday meeting, but the people on mission throughout the week. So we set up mid-week groups to go through books of the Bible together and be in smaller supportive communities, women's ministry to connect women and they also go through books of the Bible. We think of them not merely as being small groups for the Christians of the church but as setting up mini-communities for healthy missionaries to grow, be cared for and be supported in.
Our three Sunday gatherings reflect our community to the best we can - in terms of aesthetic, how we communicate, using art and ways that reflect our local ethos without compromising Scripture. Being on mission impacts preaching in my opinion, as we can't teach simple messages - but really need to explain the historical context all the more and why we come to the conclusions we do, not just state the conclusion. Our statement we use often is that we are "asking God to transform us into a worshipping community of missional theologians." I think more than ever we need to teach with depth. And almost everything we do is reflective of that somehow.
Ed: What do you see in the church that is giving you hope that we are doing better at engaging in God's mission?
Dan: I have so much excitement and joy for the church at large right now. Just the fact that we are now becoming so much more engaged in dialogue about what being on mission means is a source of encouragement for me. I really sense that there is a wonderful stirring happening amongst so many people and leaders about this. So the one thing I think we are doing better at engaging in God's mission is that we are really talking about it now, both theologically and in praxis and living it out. It feels like a tide is changing right now about all this in a very hopeful way. What incredible impact could be made as we unite and rally around God's mission all the more.
Ed: You recently participated in writing "Perspective on Christian Worship: Five Views." How did interacting with the other authors influence your view of
worship?
Dan: It was an honor to be part of that book as I so highly respect the other authors. I was thrilled seeing the passion each one had for biblical worship and worship being a lifestyle versus just something that happens on Sundays. I think we all agreed for the most part on our basic definitions of worship. But then I felt it interesting how the discussion moved back and forth about how it is done in a church meeting. Interestingly it ended up being more about traditional preference and subjective styles than about what is revealed or taught in the Scriptures about worship. Even when some said it isn't about style or preference, it felt to me that they responded with descriptions of worship based out of tradition or personal preference. I really did enjoy learning from the other authors and seeing the diversity of ways we can worship and still remain biblically faithful. And I think we only touched the surface really in this book as we didn't include African-American expressions of worship, experimental, hip-hop and other forms we see in churches today. I wish it was called "Fifteen Views", not just "Five Views" as there is so much beauty in various biblically diverse worship that I find broadening to my view of worship.
Ed: Your writings have at times been widely accepted and widely criticized. What keeps you writing, leading, and speaking when the criticisms arise?
Dan: I always, always, always want to be open to criticism. We need others to read what we write and challenge us if there are areas which may not be in alignment with biblical orthodoxy in any way. So I actually appreciate people who read what I write and then raise questions. However, what happened with so much of the "emerging church" criticism, is that everything "emerging" was lumped together. Instead of specifically focusing on individuals and their specific writings or churches, there were generalizations and stereotypes painted. It would be like if all "Baptists" were thought to be Fred Phelps and that Baptist church in Kansas. So, unfortunately the whole "emerging church" world became understandably confusing, and I even stopped using the phrase.
I love criticism that is done with a heart of caring, thoughtfulness, integrity and I take what others may raise up very seriously. But at the same time, criticism does need to be based out of scriptural principles and accuracy about what the critic is saying - not speculation, guilt by association or criticism that is more personal preference in nature than something from Scripture. Missionaries can get criticized as they are on mission in different cultures if people don't like or understand why they are changing things. So some criticism has been from people who just don't understand mission versus something biblically-based.
But in terms of what keeps me going, it is the mission that keeps me going. I believe more than ever that we need to encourage each other towards mission as people are valuable to God. And as long as what I write what is encouraging to others and I sense that God is enabling me to do so, I will keep writing. I signed with several more books with Zondervan, so it looks like God has writing in the plan for several more years - so I truth that what I am supposed to keep doing.
Ed: Obviously, the word "missional" is spoken of, used by, and claimed by many groups. Instead of giving another definition for the word, can you tell the readers an example of where you and your wife are seeking to live missionally?
Dan: I LOVE that you ask this question, and in the missional conversation I wish this question would be more discussed. A church can call themselves missional - an author can even write about missional - but I want to hear stories about how this is lived out. What are the names and stories of non-Christians who are in the lives of leaders?
Just yesterday my wife sent me the email of a woman she met in one of our daughters classes wanting to meet up to find out about our church and beliefs. We do charter schooling for our 8-year-old twin daughters. So we get to place them in art classes and dance classes with people who are not part of churches. We have to be intentional to look for opportunities in everything we do to build relationships and trust with people outside the church. It is too easy to get sucked into the Christian circles and never leave, especially being on staff at a church. I intentionally do whatever I can to place myself in building relationships with those outside of church circles. I somewhat regularly go to concerts with friends who are not Christians.
Tonight (Sunday) in our church I told everyone in all three gatherings after we led a prayer of confession and putting faith in Jesus, that I was going to go sit in a room and would wait if anyone wanted to talk about salvation or ask questions. I had the joy of praying with a college age guy who tonight put faith in Jesus. Tonight I also had a wonderful conversation with a young woman who was wondering if she was a Christian or not and there by herself seeking God, yet filled with doubt and questions. What a joy it is to be able to talk and pray with people and this never, ever, ever, ever, ever gets dull or routine.
Ed: In terms of missionSHIFT and the Missional Manifesto, what would be a great end-game in your mind for this event and process?
Dan: I am so incredibly thrilled to be part of MissionShift. I think you know how much I resonate with your concerns of how the term "missional" is sometimes being used. So being on a team with Tim Keller, yourself, Linda Bergquist, Alan Hirsch and the others to help frame a definition of sorts is such a privilege. And having an event like MissionShift I believe is overdue and so needed to help collectively give some focus to what "missional" means is a wonderful goal. The ultimate "end-game" so to speak for me is the hope that hundreds and hundreds, or thousands of people who do not yet know the saving grace of Jesus and the gospel will end up putting faith in Him as a result of this event. And then seeing these new disciples join in on the mission of God themselves as they grow as healthy followers of Jesus. What I mean is that I hope this event and what happens will be a catalyst for energizing leaders of the local church to be missional themselves and to lead missional churches of missional people. I long to see the Spirit use what we all do, then what a joy to think of how many lives will be eternally changes as a result. And I think we need each other all the more. So this event and what happens can cause great synergy of being part a tribe of like-hearted people who passionately want to see people in this world know Jesus and the beautiful gift of forgiveness, eternal life, joy and purpose He offers us.
Oh, a handsome man.