This week we have a special opportunity to hear from author Mike Frost about his new bookThe Road To Missional: The Journey to the Center of the Church. I've known Michael's work for several years and we've met several times along the way (we did a conference together about seven years ago, if I recall). I'm looking forward to speaking at the tenth anniversary of their ministry in Sydney in a few weeks.

Michael is a provocative thinker and worth reading. I endorsed The Road to Missional because I share Michael's concern about how the word is used and the need for more missional engagement. I think you will find it profitable.

You say we're in danger of over-using the term 'missional' so much that it has lost its original meaning. What makes you say that?

I've been told by several people that books with the word 'missional' in the title no longer sell. I've seen Facebook updates complaining about how 'over' people are with the missional conversation. One conference organizer asked that I not give presentations about the missional church, suggesting I use another phrase to mean the same thing. It seems people have had it with whole missional thing, which breaks my heart, because as I say in The Road to Missional, if the missional conversation is over, it occurs to me that it probably hasn't really ever been had.

Bruce Ashford is the Dean of the College at SEBTS. Over the years, he has been a pastor, evangelist, and church planter overseas. He also serves in leadership at The Summit Church.

Bruce has recently edited a book titled Theology and Practice of Mission: God, The Church, and The Nations. In light of recent discussions about the mission of the church, I thought I'd include this book interview to give some different views on mission.

Bruce will be around in the comments today to interact and answer questions.

Here is our interview:

What is your book about?

This book is about mission. It is about the church's call to live as a witness to Christ, drawing the nations to worship him. This mission, as we see it, does not begin in Matthew 28 or in the book of Acts, but rather all the way at the beginning of the biblical narrative. It was God's plan from the beginning to make himself known throughout the whole earth and to have people everywhere living in his presence and under his goodness. The message of this book is that God created for this purpose and redeemed for this purpose, and God's people are called to live mission-shaped lives in light of his purposes for the world.

Part One, "God's Mission," argues that any discussion of the church's mission must start with a discussion of God's mission to glorify himself by redeeming his image-bearers and restoring his good creation. Our first chapter tells the "story of mission" by unfolding the biblical narrative in four plot movements--Creation, Fall, Redemption, Restoration. The second chapter, "The Triune God," investigates what it means to say that God is the agent of missions, arguing that God's nature is both the foundation and the pattern for the church's mission to the nations.

Part Two, "The Church's Mission," treats the church's mission in light of God's mission. The church's mission is to glorify him by participating in the redemption of his image-bearers, and by living as a sign of his kingdom and of the restoration of all things. While we don't say that the church is called to do everything that God does in the world, we do say the church's mission is framed by God's mission-- seen against the backdrop and understood in light of God's mission. This part of the book includes chapters on core doctrines related to the church's mission (humanity, salvation, and the church) and on the more hot-button issues related to the church's mission (evangelism, social responsibility, culture, and lifestyle).

Part Three, "The Church's Mission to the Nations," exposes the comprehensive reach of God's mission, a reach that extends to all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations. Although the church's mission to the nations has often been relegated to international missions, we now are recognizing that those who minister in the United States often must cross cultures and sub-cultures and overcome linguistic barriers in our efforts to proclaim the gospel. This part of the book includes chapters on the OT and NT in relation to "the nations," on the church's mission in relation to hot-button topics (unreached people groups, discipleship, church planting, and suffering), and on the church's mission in relation to various belief systems (Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists, and Postmoderns.)

Part Four, "Concluding Challenges," consists of two chapters. The first concluding challenge, "A Theologically-Driven Missiology," seeks to push evangelicals to craft a theological paradigm for missiology, particularly in relation to some of today's contested missiological issues. Too often missiology is merely set upon theological scaffolding. We get that, and foundations are needed. But, it often seems like in these cases one has to take a leap from theology to practice. We wanted to offer something different in this book--a theological framework for the church's mission. We see this as being something different than merely setting the table with theological concepts--saying where we are willing to go and where we are not willing to go with these concepts. We've got to do that work. That is important, but we also need have a framework by which to engage missiologically. We've tried to propose one here.

The second concluding challenge, "A Challenge for our Churches," encourages churches and mission agencies to do whatever it takes to build a powerfully biblical and culturally strategic mission strategy for the 21st century.

Why is it important that chuches have a theological vision for mission?

We've not been very good at taking theological concepts and engaging them with "practical" matters. This type of theological engagement is often flat-footed. Theology, in most of these cases, serves to be little more than guardrails and fences.

So, we've set out to offer a way to think about mission from a certain theological framework. Generally, our starting place in this is, as one of the contributors wrote, "Mission exists because God exists." We've attempted to describe God's "character and acts through the notion of the missio Dei (mission of God) and to orient the church to see its calling in light of God's mission," for the conviction of this book is "[w]e will not be able to recover a vision and passion for missions until we recover the grandeur that God made us to know and worship him and to make him known throughout the whole earth" (pg. 17-18).

So, all of the essays here are built around the creation-fall-redemption-restoration rubric, and around a few common themes, seeking to underscore our present need for a theologically-driven missiology.

Mission finds its origin in God. It is God-centered rather than man-centered, being rooted in God's gracious will to glorify himself. Mission is defined, organized, empowered, and directed by God. Ultimately, it is accomplished by God. The church cannot understand her mission apart from the mission of God. The purpose of this book, therefore, has been to provide a basic biblical-theological framework and trajectory for understanding God's mission, the church's mission, the church's mission to the nations, and the connection between those concepts.

One of the editorial joys in this project has been interacting with our contributors, who have a variety of backgrounds and expertise. I think this is also one of the book's strengths. From the start of the project, we've wanted to offer both theologically robust and missionally credible voices here. Every contributor embraces and embodies (from their own unique perspective and insights) the necessary connection between theology and mission.

Several of the contributors are professors and others are pastors in the United States, but the majority of the chapters are written by international church planters, whose ministries are located in South America, North Africa, Middle East, Central Asia, South Asia, the Pacific Rim, and Sub Saharan Africa.

Your book covers a great deal of topics. Why the breadth?

We cover a lot of topics because we think the church's mission is pretty broad. We are called to glorify God and bear witness to him by participating in the redemption of his image-bearers, and by living as a sign of his kingdom and of the restoration of all things. When the church gathers, we do so through teaching, fellowship, worship, and witness in word and deed. When the church scatters, we also bear witness in word and deed, but do so in every realm of society and culture. The fact is that sin has ravaged every square inch of the fabric of society and culture, and therefore every square inch ought to be brought under submission to the Lordship of Christ.

There is a great struggle between the kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness, Christ and Satan, and between truth and error. This great struggle manifests itself in different ways in human history, and right now it manifests itself in the challenges posed by modernism, postmodernism, Southern fried moralism, etc. Christians should resist this totalitarian assault on social, cultural, and political life. We should fight it tooth and nail, not only from the pulpit, but in the university, business, arts, sciences, politics, etc., and we should resist it in an openly and robustly Christian manner. I see this as part of the church's mission.

The longest section of the book is the section on the church's mission to the nations. Why the priority?

Revelation 5 is perhaps the most breathtaking and powerful vision in all of Scripture, and it serves as the climax of a major thread that runs throughout the Scriptures--God's determination to make himself known to the nations so that they may worship him. In this vision that God gives to John, all of heaven bursts forth into praise of the Lamb who was slain. Among those represented are worshipers from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation. This is the vision that drives us--that our Lord will be worshiped from all corners of the globe.

And yet there are almost 2 billion people who have little or no knowledge of Christ. In many corners of the globe there are no churches, no Bibles, and no Christians to bear witness. I repeat, there are hundreds of millions, upwards of 2 billion people, who could leave their homes and search for days and months, and never find a church, a Bible, or a Christian.

Our great privilege and responsibility is to bequeath to them the treasure that was given to us--the faith once for all delivered to the saints. I hope that the recent movement towards church planting and revitalization leads toward an equally powerful movement to take the gospel to every corner of the earth until there is a church within walking distance of every house on this planet.

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Feel free to jump in, ask questions, and share your thoughts in the comments.

I've already posted the first 2 parts (Part 1, Part 2) of my discussion with pastor Tullian Tchividjian about his new book Jesus + Nothing + Everything. Tullian is here today on the blog to talk to you about your questions about the book. I hope you will seize the opportunity to engage one of the church's most gifted young pastors about issues that matter. Feel free to ask questions from (part 1, part 2) as well.

Here is part 3:

Yesterday I released part 1 of a three part series on Tullian Tchividjian's excellent new book. This morning, I will share part two of the interview. Around noon, I will post part 3 and then Tullian will be here on the blog to interact with YOUR comments and questions in that post.

Here is part 2:

Even the title of Tullian Tchividjian's new book challenges your tendency to take the Gospel for granted. Is Jesus really enough?

Day by day Christians sift through piles of emotional, spiritual and material excess. They are reminded not of their dependency on God for these things, but rather exceedingly covetous of the next thing. We want-- right now-- the next level of spiritual maturity, his spiritual gifts, her approval, a promotion, or a different pay grade. Yet, at the point of our first confession of "Jesus is Lord," we would never guess the rest of our life we are hard-wired to run back to the shackles of "more." Jesus plus nothing really is everything, and Tullian has given a powerful tool to the church.

Today and tomorrow I will release a 3-part discussion with Tullian Tchividjian about his new book. Wednesday, Tullian will be on the blog to interact with your comments and questions. Feel free to share your thoughts in the comments of parts 1 and 2 and then interact with Tullian on part 3:

Here is part 1 of our interview:

An important three-year research study examining what happens to students' faith is the basis for the launch of the Sticky Faith book series for parents and church leadership. I connected with co-author Dr. Kara Powell, Executive Director of the Fuller Youth Institute and a faculty member at Fuller Seminary, to discuss the practical, daily steps we can each take to build faith that lasts in the teenagers we care about.

Over the last few years, Ronnie Floyd has become a friend.  I've had the privilege to speak at his church, seen him lead though tough times, and have always appreciated his passion for the Great Commission.  Ronnie recently asked me to endorse his new book and I was glad to do so.

I asked Ronnie to come by and answer a few questions.  Feel free to ask a few of your own in the comments.

What served as your motivation and purpose for writing this book?

This writing project was unique for me, in that I was approached by the publisher to write on this subject. They had been watching our ministry at Cross Church and were aware of my commitment to the Great Commission. They had also observed my leadership in the Great Commission Resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention. Therefore, last September they approached me about writing a book on the Great Commission.

When they came to me, their desire was not for a book that was theoretical about the Great Commission, but for one that was action driven, to help lay people and church leaders understand what it would take to fulfill the Great Commission. The motivation was high when they said to me, "Tell the readers what it will take to reach the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ." We soon arrived at the same conviction: Our Last Great Hope is to see an awakening of the Great Commission.

While the book was written where any Christ-follower could benefit from it, I do believe if pastors, staff members, and the top two tiers of a church's lay leadership team will read it, it will move conversation about the Great Commission to top priority. This book would be a strong and highly beneficial investment for any church to make in its leaders and members.     
 
What are some of the things that make the book worth reading-- what's unique?

First, I believe this book helps each Christ-follower own the Great Commission personally. The spiritual life of the believer and the church is not divorced from the task of the Great Commission. The book confronts the believer's personal spiritual life and also gives a roaring call for the church to be awakened spiritually. Right up front, the book makes the Great Commission personal for each Christ-follower, from the most simple to the most complex person.

A second feature is that we have written a chapter on the family and the Great Commission. Our families must be transformed by parents becoming disciples, resulting in them discipling their children.  It challenges parents to engage their children in the life of the local church and equip their children to go to the nations. It elevates the Great Commission in the family, therefore changing the conversation in the home.
        
The third unique feature of this book I would highlight is that the entire book is very practical. It does not just lay the burden upon the reader and make them feel they have nothing to contribute to it. This book not only calls people to action, but also gives specific actions they can take personally, in their families, and in their churches. These are not actions that only "spiritual giants" can take, but actions anyone can and should take as followers of Jesus Christ.
 
What is the value for a church or church leader to read Our Last Great Hope?

There are many things in this book that most pastors would never feel the freedom to talk about with their people. If conversation in our churches does not move to the Great Commission, spiritual life, awakening, and vitality will not occur. Therefore, if a pastor and/or a pastor and his staff team will get this book into the hands of their people, the benefits will be plentiful.

For example, Our Last Great Hope talks about how we can capture our communities. America is so lost! We must view it and strategize to reach it as if we were entering another country to reach it for Christ.

Another way this book will benefit a pastor and his church is through its unashamed challenge for people to become first-tenth givers to their local church. It also challenges them to leave upon their death at least one-tenth of all their assets to their local church for the continuation of Gospel advancement. Additionally, they are challenged to leave upon their death an additional five percent to a Great Commission ministry such as a mission board, ministry, or seminary that is sold out to seeing the world come to Jesus Christ. I promise this will change the conversation in a dramatic way when lay people are challenged in these areas.
 
Anything else you want to add?

I want to encourage people to get the book in whatever format they enjoy reading. Share it with others. Use it in groups. Ensure pastors, staff members, and lay leaders get a copy of the book. In order to learn more about the book, visit ronniefloyd.com.

Feel free to join in the comments...

From what I can tell, the majority of missionaries and those who actively support them are women. Historically, women are always listed in the hall of great missionaries. Ruth Tucker has written a book on the very subject: Guardians of the Great Commission about women in missions. (By the way, Dr. Tucker has also written From Jerusalem to Irian Jaya: A Biographical History of Christian Missions, which is well worth your time.)

Every mission board I know says most of its missionaries are women, yet I see less writing and teaching on the unique role and situation that women have faced in the mission endeavor.

Elizabeth Elliot Leitch wrote:

What is the place of women in world mission? Jesus said, "You [and the word means all of you, male and female] are my witnesses. You are the salt of the earth. You are the light of the world." And there have been countless thousands who, without reference to where they came from or what they knew or who they were, have believed that Jesus meant exactly what he said and have set themselves to follow.

Today strident female voices are raised, shrilly and ad nauseam, to remind us that women are equal with men. But such a question has never even arisen in connection with the history of Christian missions. In fact, for many years, far from being excluded, women constituted the majority of foreign missionaries.

She explains her own story later in the article:

When my husband was killed by Indians, I found myself in some indefinable positions. There wasn't one missionary man left in Ecuador who spoke the jungle Quichua language. There was no one to teach the young Quichua believers, no one to lead the church, no one but women to carry on where five missionary men had left off.

The door to the Auca tribe had slammed shut for those men and was, to our astonishment, opened to two women. It didn't look to me like a woman's job. But God's categories are not always ours. I had to shuffle my categories many times during my last eight years of missionary work. Since coming back to the States I've done it again. I've had a career of sorts, I've been a wife and housewife once more, and again I'm a widow.

But it is the same faithful Lord who calls me by name and never loses track of my goings and reminds me in a still, small voice, "Ye are my witnesses, that ye might know and believe me, and understand that I am he." (Is. 43:10). There is our primary responsibility: to know him. I can't be a witness unless I've seen something, unless I know what it is I am to testify to. And it is the Lord of the Universe who calls you - you women, you men - and offers you today a place in his program. Your education or lack of it, your tastes and prejudices and fears and status or ambitions, your age or sex or color or height or marital status or income bracket are all things which may be offered to God, after you have presented your bodies as a living sacrifice. And God knows exactly what to do with them. They are not obstacles if you hand them over.

She wrote and taught in areas of missions, challenging many others.

There are so many stories of great women missionaries. So, here is my question. Why are there so few evangelical, women missiologists? I am not saying there are none, but their are disproportionally few. (A missiologist is generally considered someone who has academic (Ph.D.?) training in missiology.)

For the term evangelical, I am using Larry Eskridge's definition:
* The need for personal conversion (or being "born again")
* Actively expressing and sharing the gospel
* A high regard for biblical authority, especially biblical inerrancy
* An emphasis on teachings that proclaim the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Part of the reason may be that many of us mission-minded evangelicals tend to be complementarian in regards to gender, but that view should not preclude women serving as missiologists.

I think we need to hear more from women missiologists and mission thinkers. I am making a point of trying to highlight women thinkers (among others) in my Thursday is for Thinkers. And, I personally have encouraged one of my team, Lizette Beard (a gifted thinker, former missionary, and researcher), to do her Ph.D. in missions. She was noticeably absent from work last week while she started the missiology program at SEBTS this week, building on her missions experience in Alaska and Africa and her Masters in Missions. You'll be hearing from Lizette on the blog soon.

So, here is my question again: why are there so few evangelical women missiologists (while most missionaries are women) and what is the best way to address that? I recognize my readership is broad and not all agree on gender issues, but I think we can still have a good discussion. If you are an egalitarian, you can blame complementarianism one time -- but then you have to suggest some other ideas. In other words, this is a discussion of missiology, not an argument about complementarian / egalitarian views-- that won't be solved here.

But, I do think there are some important voices and lessons that need to be shared and I'd like to think about how we can share them more clearly from hearing from men and women in missiology. Tell us some of the best women thinkers and missiologists you would recommend -- particularly evangelicals, even conservative evangelicals!

The floor is yours.

Last month I had the privilege of speaking at Mars Hill Church in Seattle. During my message, I mentioned a book by Jamie Munson Money: God or Gift as it fit into the theme of the text (stewardship). Money is always a timely subject for Americans to contemplate, but especially during the season of holiday consumption, credit card debt, storefront bell-ringers, year-end giving requests, and a recession thrown in to complicate things all the more. Just this week I pointed to some research that shows how churches are just now feeling the impact of the recession-- now that it's "over."

I asked Pastor Jamie a few questions about his book, which is available for just $5 on Amazon (print, Kindle, and discount ten-packs), and am glad to share the conversation with you.

Ed: You've described Money as Doctrine-meets-Dave Ramsey. Explain what this combination looks like.


Jamie Munson: There are many helpful books out there with some very practical advice about money. And there are many helpful books that explain money from a biblical worldview. But there aren't a lot of books that unite the practical with the theological, applying the gospel to personal finance.

This is a tremendous oversight. Discipleship tools rarely address stewardship, yet Jesus is clear: where your treasure is, there will your heart be also (Luke 12:34). Jesus describes our money as a primary worship tool, but all too often we treat giving as optional, or at least less important than "spiritual" things like prayer, Bible reading, and service.

The church's neglect in this area has led to dismal giving across all traditions. Twenty percent of Christians give literally nothing at all, and the vast majority give very little (see Christian Smith's Passing the Plate). Makes you wonder what we're actually worshiping. Money is a god. Jesus even gave it a name (Matthew 6:24).

Let's talk about the other option that you reference in your subtitle: money as gift.

Sure. When it comes to something like money (or sex, or music, or technology), Christians have a tendency to reject it altogether, as if the thing itself were inherently evil. Money is not the problem. We are the problem. Sin is the problem, and we need Jesus. By his grace we are saved, and by his grace we've been given lives to live, people to love, and work to do. As a tool, money is a great gift to use for advancing the gospel, caring for those in need, and enjoying the life God has given.

The story behind the publication of this book is rather unique. Tell us how it came about.


We're going through the book of Luke right now as a church, and in chapter 12 Jesus teaches a lot about money and stewardship. I set out to write some basic curriculum for our small groups to dig into this particular passage, but the project grew quite quickly and we had a full-length book in a matter of weeks. We printed it ourselves in order to push it out as quickly as possible and keep costs low. While we were at it, we decided to put it up on Amazon in hopes that the content could help other churches. I'm not taking any royalties on this, so we're able to sell it for extremely cheap at $5 per copy.



Is the content specific to Mars Hill Church, or could other churches benefit from this book?

Most of what we create for Mars Hill we also try and push out for the benefit of the greater church, so this book was written with that broader audience in mind. The format is very simple, with concise chapters, straightforward discussion questions, and a few practical tools and charts. Our small groups went through the whole thing in three weeks, but it could easily be used for counseling, couples, or individual study. Even though we're past Luke 12 in our sermon series, we'll continue to hand the book out for free to our congregation because the content remains timely.


Can you tell whether or not the book has had an effect on the congregation so far?

I've talked with a number of people who were pretty honest about their resistance to the idea of a three-week mini-series about money. We're seeing God change hearts. This is the first year in memory that we're on target to make budget by the end of the year, and the number of givers was up 30 percent last month--which is especially encouraging because that means more people care about the mission and what God is doing through their church.

Today is payday for a lot of people around the country. Where should their money go?  

The important thing to remember before divvying up your paycheck is that it is a gift from God, and he will hold you accountable for how you use it. That doesn't mean you have to give all your money away, although I would encourage you to give to your church before you do anything else with it. Pray. Ask the Holy Spirit for the wisdom to steward God's resources well. And then give, save, spend, invest, and enjoy in a way that honors God. If you're not sure what that looks like, I would hope that my book could be of some help, but read Proverbs. Read Luke 12. Bring it up in your community group. Talk with your spouse. Let's not be afraid to discuss money. The heart of the church is at stake.

Find Jamie Munson on Twitter and Facebook. You can download a free chapter and read excerpts from Money: God or Gift at theResurgence.com.

Darrin Patrick is the Founding and Lead Pastor of The Journey in Saint Louis, Missouri which runs eight services across four campuses and continues to aggressively plant new campuses and churches in the Saint Louis region and beyond. Darrin also serves as Vice President of the Acts 29 Church Planting Network and is a regular contributor at the Resurgence. His new book, Church Planter: The Man, the Message, the Mission, is now available. I was grateful that Darrin was able to answer a few questions for the blog.

What kind of man should plant a church?

A man who is a Christian, who has forsaken being his own Savior and King and has trusted Christ with his life. He is a man who has a calling from God to a specific place with a elder-qualified life to back it up. He should be determined to prevail and dependent on God as he plants. He should be a man who loves his family more than his church and is secure and smart enough to share leadership with a team who leads the mission.

Why do most churches stay small?

Largely because most pastors don't know how to build systems, structures, and processes that are not contingent upon them. Most pastors can care for people, but don't build systems of care. Most pastors can develop leaders individually, but lack the skill to implement a process of leadership development. When a pastor can't build systems and structures that support ministry, the only people who are cared for or empowered to lead are those who are "near" the pastor or those very close to the pastor. This limits the size of the church to the size of the pastor.

Has the gospel message been lost in the church?

I don't think it has been lost as much as it has been truncated. The gospel is referred in most messages in most evangelical churches, but it is not central. The gospel - news about the person and work of Christ for the sinner and saint - is not the central theme for most sermons nor is it the primary motivation for obeying most sermons. The gospel has been relegated to good news for the sinner only. The gospel for the saint, in many pulpits, has tragically become moral advice rather than God's good news.

How is contextualization not compromise?

Good contextualization is not bringing the gospel to people on their terms. That would be compromise. Biblical contextualization is bringing the gospel to people with their terms. That is why we take our language about the gospel and forms of church that declare the gospel and we adapt them to be understandable to the cultures in which we find ourselves.

What are the biggest challenges a church planter faces?

Himself. Period. Can you die to yourself so that God can do something through and in spite of you? Can you trust Jesus to build the church and not overwork so you won't destroy your health, marriage and family? Can you surround yourself with friends who challenge you and not just fans who like your vision? Are you able to train and empower godly elders who will serve as your equals and will more than once save you and the church from certain implosion?

Darrin will be checking in today and interacting some, so feel free to post questions and comments.

My friend Tullian Tchividjian is the Senior Pastor of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, and a visiting professor of theology at Reformed Theological Seminary. He blogs at The Gospel Coalition site here.

Tullian is named after Tertullian, who, oddly enough, was the topic of Sunday lunch conversation this week. Tullian is becoming more widely known, and for good reason. He is a solid thinker, strong communicator, and passionate for the gospel.

If you are coming by to discuss yesterday's blog on contextualization, you might appreciated Tullian's article on the subject or his message at Advance 10.

Also, this Sunday was a big day at their church as they merged their two services. Tullians writes about that here (it's worth your time to go and read it before reading our interview). I listened to his message on the subject last week, where he exhorted believers to be missional and not tribal.

His newest book, Surprised by Grace, is all about the story of Jonah, which means it's all about the grace of God and his gospel triumphing over idols. Some of you didn't see that coming, which is part of the reason why Tullian wrote the book. Our brother was kind enough to answer a few questions about the book and his ministry, and he will be on the blog today answering questions in the comments.

If you looked at the typical lineup at most Christian conferences, or read many Christian blogs, you'll notice one thing. The line-up is dominated by pastors. In one sense, that seems normal -- pastors' conferences tend to attract pastors and they hear from pastors.

I've written before about my concern over the issue of clergification (my comments here from my blog and an article in Your Church Magazine from Christianity Today), that increasingly the ministry is being owned by and solely done through credentialed pastors or ministers credentialed in some way. Yet, in the New Testament, we see pastors being valued, and the calling even described as noble (1 Timothy 3:1), but we also see faithful non-pastors mentioned in the text.

In some tantalizing ways, names of lay people are sprinkled throughout the Scripture and often are seen as having substantial influence in the New Testament church (e.g., Priscilla and Aquila, Lydia, Epahroditus, Lois and Eunice, and many others).

Take Priscilla and Aquila. We have no evidence of a pastoral role, yet they appear in multiple cities helping to plant churches and do ministry -- without any reference to preaching or pastoring. They even have a Wikipedia article. ;-)

A question that I am asking as an extension of my concern about clergification is: How can we find and affirm non-pastors who are engaged in Christian ministry? Can we affirm people who don't go to seminary and who are not on church payroll as valuable agents of Kingdom work?

The folks at Leadership Network recently published an interview on their blog with Warren Bird and myself about our new book, Viral Churches. I thought it would be good to publish it here as well.

Why did you write Viral Churches?

Ed: It was our desire to write a book that would assist those involved or interested in church planting so that they might move beyond simply starting one church, toward the planting of movements. As such this book is intended for everyone involved in the church planting process: denominations, networks, local churches and church planters. Our ultimate hope is that we'll move from addition to multiplication. We need to see true church multiplication movements take place.

Warren: Lots of great books show people how to plant a church. We wanted to show the how - and why - of planting a whole movement of churches. Church multiplication asks questions like "how many apples are in this one seed?"

Where do your ideas come from?

Warren: Leadership Network commissioned Ed to oversee what we think is the nation's largest cross-denominational study of church planting. The study, along with his own work, pinpointed lots of exciting developments that need to be championed.

Ed: Over a six month period, with twenty-four interviewers, we surveyed hundreds and hundreds of people from denominations, networks and churches to ask questions about what is working in church planting. Also I have been involved in church planting in leadership roles for networks and denominations.

What's new in Viral Churches?

Ed: We tried to create a standard for measuring a church multiplication movement. We define it as when a movement of churches has a 50% reproduction rate each year with 50% of the people coming to the new churches as new converts and then seeing that pattern through the third year. In other words, if one year there were 100 churches, the next year there'd be 150 churches and half of the new people in those churches would be new converts and that goes on for at least three years. We consider that to be a church multiplication movement.

Warren: Viral Churches tells a lot of great stories about how people are birthing networks that plant churches through a multiplication approach. It gives a bunch of specific examples of how church leaders shift from addition-thinking to multiplication-thinking. It offers a new lens for looking at the Book of Acts, calling the Apostle Paul's travels his church planting journeys rather than his missionary journeys.

Were there any surprises in the research?

Warren: Each chapter begins with a specific research discovery, some of them rather surprising. For example, Ed's research totally debunks the widely repeated myth that 80% of new churches fail. It also demonstrates that people who are assessed (before planting) and coached (after planting) have a noticeably higher success rate.

Ed: Probably the big surprise is we just don't see a multiplication movement happening in North America yet. We see some hopeful signs and we see growth in the prominence of church planting but there's potential and need for much more than what's happening today.

What changes need to take place before a movement can happen?

Ed: One of the first things we need to do is give more people permission to plant churches. There are marks of the biblical church and those always need to be central to what we do, but we have "clergified" church planting. In other words, we have made it necessary to be a certain class of person in order to plant a church -- and I don't think we see that in the New Testament. We see laypeople planting churches, we see pastors going out and planting churches and we see bivocational people doing it.

It's amazing to me how many church planters think God's will is determined by whether or not they can get enough funding to underwrite them in a full-time ministry -- this attitude is unhelpful. We must learn to give people permission to plant biblically-driven churches without a false class system.

What's one thing readers will take away from Viral Churches?

Ed: The immediate takeaway from the book is that leaders shouldn't come in looking to plant a tree but to plant an orchard. If you start with that passion and focus then you will go out there and start churches that plant churches. The way you make your first convert may just determine the shape and the focus of your movement. So beginning with the end in mind is critical.

What do you hope your book will accomplish?

Ed: I'd like to pass on to readers that God is at work through His church. Ephesians 3:10 teaches that God has chosen the church to make known His manifold wisdom in the world. The church is not the center of God's plan, Jesus is, but it is central to God's plan. And if you love church, you'll love church planting.

Warren: Through working on this book, I met some very amazing people who readers need to know about. Their models and size of vision set the bar of church planting at a whole new level that places a far higher value on replication. We hope to persuade people that even the recent resurgence of church planting falls terribly short of what is needed to make the life-changing good news about Jesus Christ accessible to every North American today.

How can readers connect with you to continue this conversation?

People can interact with Ed at his blog Ed Stetzer.com, which also links to his Facebook and Twitter. It also highlights many places he's speaking, often with links to videos of his talks. Warren blogs regularly at learnings.leadnet.org.

You can order Viral Churches right here.

Dr. David Nicholas planted Spanish River Church in Boca Raton, Florida and pastored it for 42 years. He now is the President of The Church Planting Network. His book Whatever Happened to the Gospel? was just released from CrossBooks and is on sale at the Presbyterian Church in America General Assembly. He is signing books there at 2 p.m. today if you happen to be at the meeting.

I primarily knew David through his passion for church planting. He invited me to speak at Spanish River several years ago and we became friends. We caught up last night over dinner and I was reminded of just how significant their church planting involvment has been. As pastor of Spanish River Church, he was involved in the planting of 235 churches in the United States and around the world. He left SRC in 2009 and started The Church Planting Network and continues to plant churches.

David also has a passion for clear gospel proclamation. Over a year ago, he asked us here at LifeWay Research to conduct an independent survey of sermons from churches of all sizes and affiliations across the country, to see how often certain elements of the Gospel were being explained in a way that is meaningful and easy to understand. David provided a list of what elements were included in his understanding of clear gospel proclamation, what he calls "The Bad News / Good News." It was one of our more interesting projects.

Our listening and ranking revealed that 94% of pastors did not include all the elements of the Bad News (our sin problem and the futility of good works) and the Good News (what God has done through Christ to overcome our sin problem) in their message. Some had some of the elements. Others had none. So David set out to ask the question that should come out of such startling results: Whatever Happened to the Gospel?

Since I know this is of interest to many of my readers, and I have written on gospel definitions here at the blog, I think it will be an interesting discussion.

Read the interview and jump into the comments below. David will be around today answering questions on the blog.

Ed Stetzer: Why did you write this book? Aren't most Evangelical pastors preaching the Gospel?

DN: I am convinced that most Evangelical pastors believe they are doing a good job with the Gospel but a LifeWay Reasearch survey revealed that only 6% are preaching what I call a clear, complete, logical, sequential explanation of the Bad News and the Good News. It seems that every time I share this statistic with a person or a group, the response is usually, "I'm not surprised!" I find this interesting because I'm not sure these people have that great an understanding of the Gospel, but they do know something is wrong in the church today. I believe what's wrong with the church today is its lack of a clear, complete, logical, sequential presentation of the Bad News/Good News.

ES: Some might say that problem isn't a lack of Gospel preaching but the problem is that you have defined the Gospel too narrowly by insisting that it has to be a clear, complete, logical, sequential presentation of the Bad News/Good News. Can you present parts of the Gospel as a starting point and then bring them to a fuller understanding? Is the problem more one of using your own terminology rather than a lack of Gospel preaching?

DN: It may appear that way to some people. The real question is: How many Gospels are there? Did Peter, James, John, Paul, Timothy, etc. each have his own Gospel or version of the Gospel? Is each pastor free to decide what the Gospel is? Or is there one true Gospel? I opt for the latter, and cite 1 Corinthians 15:1, 3-4 as the premier passage in the Scriptures defining the Gospel. This is the only Gospel Paul knew, and it is the only Gospel Paul preached. Acts 18 tells the story of Paul's first visit to Corinth, and nowhere in that passage is the word Gospel mentioned. But when Paul wrote his first letter to that church, he reminded them of the one and only Gospel he had preached to them. This is the Gospel that is the power of God for the salvation of all who believe (Romans 1:16). God works his saving power through the Gospel, and that is why we are to proclaim it. I make the point in my book that even the 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 definition of the Gospel has to be explained, and that is why I talk about the Bad News and the Good News. In reality, the Good News means little if a person does not understand the Bad News about himself.

ES: Tell us what you see in regards to how pastors preach the gospel.

DN: I have discovered that there are various categories of preachers and their approach to "preaching the Gospel." There are those who think they are preaching the Gospel because they preach from the Bible. But the two are not the same. Some assume they are preaching the Gospel, but in reality, they preach in a language I call "the Christianese language," a language understood only by believers, but unbelievers don't have a clue. Many pastors preach an incomplete Gospel and others preach a Gospel that is garbled and disjointed. Then there are those preachers who think they are preaching the Gospel because they encourage their people to get involved in service projects and social justice. Again, the two are not the same. Then there are pastors who give an invitation at every service for people to come forward to "receive Jesus into their hearts," but they never explain who Jesus is, why people need him, or what he did for them. And this one is epidemic in some circles. Then there are those pastors who never think about preaching the Gospel. Some don't believe it. Others view the Gospel as the "basics" and know their people are way beyond that. Then others can't imagine having any unbelievers in their services.

ES: Your emphasis seems to be on the preaching of the Bad News/Good News, but many young pastors today are convinced that their calling is to proclaim the glories of the kingdom of God and the importance of kingdom living. How would you address this seeming disparity?

DN: The Kingdom and the Church are synonymous in the New Testament and the Kingdom is built as the gospel is proclaimed. Note these Scriptures.

"But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." (Acts 8:12 ESV)

"And he (Paul) entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God." (Acts 19:8 ESV)

Paul to the Ephesian elders, "And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again." (Acts 20:25 ESV)

"When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets." (Acts 28:23 ESV)

"He lived there two whole years at his own expense, and welcomed all who came to him, proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance." (Acts 28:30-31 ESV)

You cannot build the Kingdom of God if you are not centered on the Gospel. Anything else degenerates into a social gospel, moralistic teaching and do-goodism. And that is not our calling. We are involved in the calling of people from death to life through the proclamation of the Bad News/Good News.

ES: These are "book interviews" here at the blog and your book is released today. How will the book help them? What will they take away from it?

DN: One of the comments I often receive from those who attend my Gospel Boot Camps is that the Bad News/Good News approach gives them a way to present the Gospel that makes sense and gives them confidence in knowing they are actually preaching the Gospel and know what they are talking about. Some men have an "Aha" moment in the Boot Camp when they suddenly get it. Others get it later on as they use this approach and see God take people from death to life through the Gospel. The power is in the Gospel, not in our cleverly devised sermons or our own eloquence. I continually receive testimonies from men who went through the Gospel Boot Camp telling of people who have come to Christ. I received one yesterday from a leader in Lucknow, India who saw 11 people come to Christ the other day. The power is in the Gospel, but if it is not being set forth in a clear, complete, logical, sequential way, the power seems to dissipate, as is evidenced by the lack of true conversions in most churches. Yes, I realize God can save people through the feeblest attempts, but I would rather make the Gospel as clear as possible.

ES: We talked yesterday about your "Gospel Boot Camps." Explain that to the readers.

DN: I offer two day Gospel Boot Camps to train men in the Bad News/Good News approach. Check us out at gospelbootcamp.org or at thechurchplantingnetwork.com. I only accept eight men at a camp because of the personal attention given. There are some lectures, and discussion groups, and opportunities to try out what is being taught.

Whatever Happened to the Gospel? is available from the publisher, CrossBooks, from Amazon and from David's website, thechurchplantingnetwork.com.

You can also see an article that David wrote about this at Sermon Central. David will be around to interact with us right here on the blog today. So jump into the comments if you have any questions or issues you want to discuss.

Recently, I was interviewed on the blog of one of my friends, J.D. Payne. He directs the Church Planting Center at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he is also a professor. J.D. interviewed me about Viral Churches, which I recently co-authored with Warren Bird. Here are some excerpts:

What makes this book different from others on church planting?

It's different because, though this book is research-based, we also take an advocacy perspective. We advocate the need for an alternative to inward-focused or addition based church planting. Viral Churches contains enough stories for participants in church planting at every level to find inspiration and specific help but we want to see a new breed of planters. Our country needs planters to shift from church planting to church multiplication movements. The message put simply: Church planting needs to go viral.

Why is this book important for church planters?

I think this book will help church planters see the next big picture of what God is doing. The guidance offered will help planters expand their vision for how churches can be part of a replicating movement.
Now, some church planters already have the vision for a multiplying movement. They can use this book to see the practices and characteristics necessary to move from vision to action.
Also, each chapter in the book will introduce the reader to at least one network, coalition, or denomination that is placing a major emphasis on church planting, and the Appendix in the book lists all the entities that have been described.

You talk about "changing the scorecard" today. What do you mean by this phrase?

A change of the scorecard is needed to see a multiplication movement occur where you lead. Warren and I contend that if you change the scorecard in the church that eventually you will be able to change the scorecard in the community. Rather than seeking to be the next big thing - the church version of "America's Got Talent" - let's become the next transformative thing. Instead of our neighbors saying, "Wow, you've got a big church," let's create a movement where they say, "Wow, your church makes a difference in our community, and around the country."

Sojourn Community Church was launched in September 2000 in Louisville, Kentucky. Nine years later, they are making a great impact for the gospel in their city and beyond. I got to spend time with two of their pastors on the Upstream Collective's Jet Set Tour in Europe.

Daniel Montgomery is lead pastor and a friend for many years. In Paris, he took a few minutes to talk about his passion for carrying out the Great Commission:

Brian Howard oversees leadership development and church planting efforts for Sojourn. Here he talks about why we should get involved in church planting around the globe:

I have shared a bit of my journey to healthier living and weight loss here on the blog, so the story of Todd Starnes' transformation and his new book naturally grabs my attention. And I imagine many of my readers would benefit to hear from his as well. Todd Starnes is a best-selling author and network news reporter for Fox News Radio, based in New York City. He is also an evangelical Christian and a member of the Journey Church in Manhattan. Todd is an award-winning journalist, earning one of his profession's highest honors, the Edward R. Murrow Award and the Associated Press Mark Twain Award for Storytelling. His work is heard on more than 750 radio stations around the nation. He also hosts a religion podcast called, "FOX on Faith."

Steve Addison is the Director of Church Resource Ministries (CRM) Australia, and the author of a new book, Movements That Change The World. Steve is called to encourage church planting movements around the world and is therefore a student of the history of movements that spread the gospel. His new book is a look at that history.

I asked Steve a few questions for the blog. It's short and packed with content - sort of like the Gospel of Mark, just without the divine inspiration. :) Steve is in Australia, so with the time difference he wont be able to check out your comments and questions until around 6pm. But he will make it to the blog to interact. So hit him up now and he'll respond later this evening.

Why did you write Movements that Change the World?

A number of reasons. As a church planter I remember hearing Peter Wagner say, "Starting new churches is the most effective form of evangelism under the sun." I thought if that's true, then starting church planting movements could be even more effective.

I dived in to some church history and discovered that God was continually raising up movements for the renewal and expansion of the Christian faith. I learned that those movements are always on the fringes.

I began looking at Jesus as the founder of a missionary/missional movement that now spans the globe. I read Acts and Paul that way, and the lights came on.

You've identified the characteristics of dynamic movements. Tell us about them.

The five characteristics are: white-hot faith, commitment to a cause, contagious relationships, rapid mobilization and adaptive methods.

White-hot faith is the engine room of a dynamic movement. The apostle Paul was not converted by clever arguments but through a powerful encounter with Christ on the Damascus Road. We would not have had the Reformation without Martin Luther's struggle with the question of, "How can a holy God forgive a sinner like me?"

The secret of Jesus' life and ministry was his relationship of loving obedience to the Father and dependence on the power of the Holy Spirit. He drew his disciples into the same relationship and sent them out with no other resources.

A white-hot faith provides the motivation, energy and legitimacy to go change the world.

Next is commitment to a cause. For good or for evil, history is made by people committed to a common purpose. Nothing changes unless people care deeply and are willing take action. Jesus had high expectations of his followers. So high, that some of them walked away.

John Wesley was the founder of the Methodist movement. On one occasion he visited Bristol. When he arrived there were 900 people in the local Society. When he left 143 of them had been removed for various reasons: among them wife-beating, smuggling, and drunkenness. Wesley led a disciplined movement that changed the world.

The third characteristic of movements is contagious relationships. We are all just six handshakes away from everyone on the planet. Ideas, like viruses, spread from person to person and from group to group. In the age of the internet, contagious relationships are still the most important form of communication.

The most responsive people to the gospel are those who have recently seen someone in their world come to faith.

Whenever we see the Christian faith expanding exponentially, it's traveling across networks of preexisting relationships. We tend to focus on building quality relationships with a few. Jesus focused on connecting broadly and then through one responsive person, reaching households and villages. That's how we see the gospel spreading in Acts.

The fourth characteristic is rapid mobilization. Movements don't abolish the clergy, they just ordain everyone for ministry. What did Jesus do? He went after ordinary people and trained them on-the-job. His lecture on the nature of faith was conducted on a sinking boat in the midst of a storm. There was theological content integrated with life and ministry. Jesus grew leaders and released them to go and change the world.

You don't get dramatic expansion of a movement if everyone is a paid professional. If anyone is paid, they are paid to pioneer new fields and mobilize others. Whether they are in New York or New Delhi, that's what missionaries do.

The last characteristic is adaptive methods. The best illustration of an adaptive method I can think of is the game of soccer. Soccer is the world's game played by hundreds of millions and watched by billions. Why? I think it's because you can drop a ball at the feet of a three year old and she can start playing. It may take a lifetime of practice to master the game, but only an instant to begin enjoying it. Try doing that with American or Australian football.

Adaptive methods are simple, flexible and transferable. That's one reason why Jesus taught by telling stories. A good story, like the prodigal son, can be told by anyone to anyone, even across the boundaries of culture and time.

Movements are unchanging when it comes to their core message and beliefs. At the same time they are willing to change everything else to get that message out and get the job done. Unfortunately we have churches that are unwilling to change their methods, but quite happy to change the heart of the gospel. They have the worst of both worlds and the fruit is clear to see.

Where are the current examples of dynamic movements today?

The exciting news is they are mostly in the developing world--Africa, Asia, Latin America. These are also the regions of greatest population growth. Today, over 90% of new Christians will come from these regions. Expect that trend to continue.

In the US I've been encouraged by leaders such as Neil Cole, Bob Roberts, Ralph Moore, Tim Keller, Mark Driscoll, and Jimmy Seibert who emphasize multiplication of disciples, workers and churches rather than just growth. A growing band of leaders are seeing the church as a movement.

The whole missional/emerging discussion has helped unfreeze us all in our understanding of church. If that is combined with a commitment to the Gospel and a passion to multiply disciples it could be quite fruitful.

What are some contemporary examples of adaptive methods?

I think the Alpha program is a good example. The strategies that David Garrison and others have developed to fuel church planting movements around the world is another clear example.

Who do you want to reach with the message of this book?

As I wrote I thought of a number of actual people. A couple leading a home group who have led eighteen people to Christ in the last year, and are wondering if this is the beginning of a new church. I thought of the leader of a large church in Kenya that is growing leaders who plant churches in the suburbs and the slums. I thought of a young woman in China who has come to faith, and is now reaching her friends with the gospel. I thought of a church leader in New York with a vision to reach the cities of the world.

What difference do you hope the book will make?

I want people to discover Jesus as the leader of a movement that changes the world.

John Avant is not just a friend of mine (which is almost enough of an introduction), but he is also the Senior Pastor at First West, and author of Authentic Power and The Passion Promise. His new book, If God Were Real: A Journey Into A Faith That Matters, asks what it might look like if we lived as if our God was actually, you know - real! In pointing out some of the ways we disconnect for the God who is truly there he encourages believers to live life on mission with God. I had the chance to ask John a few questions relating to the book. He's hanging around on the blog today to interact with all of us here. So be sure to jump into the comments and hit John up with your questions.

What does the title "If God Were Real" mean and what inspired the title?

I have become increasingly concerned over the last several years that most Christians and most churches have actually stopped believing in God! Think about the audacious things we say we believe: God becoming a baby, the Creator's rebellious creation creates an instrument of death on which the Creator dies and yet won't stay dead. The gospel is revolutionary! So why do we live such timid, unchanged lives? Seems to me we may be practical atheists. I wanted to explore with the readers what it might be like if we actually lived like we believe what we say we do.

I also wrote this in the hopes that atheists and seekers, some of whom are friends, would take a look at God from a different perspective and without the "battle mode" Christians and atheists are normally in. After all if atheists don't believe in God and we live like we don't, we may have more in common than we thought!

You say that you have given up on Christianity and so should everyone else. What do you mean by that?

The word "Christian" is a good word - a biblical word. When you add "ity" to it you get something I don't see in the New Testament. I think this has become our problem. In the first century there was a Jesus Movement that changed the world. In the western world today there are lots of Jesus monuments that don't change much of anything.

I am not giving up on the church. I don't think we have actually tried being the church very often yet! I am sure not giving up on the Scriptures. I believe them to be the very Word of God. So some have asked what does it practically mean then to give up on Christianity. 3 things for me: I have given up on the Christianity that has become defined by institutions, opposition, and isolation. I have given up on any institution that is not visibly a part of a Jesus movement. I have given up on the thought that if we just oppose enough evil people, we will usher in the kingdom. I have given up on the isolation that has resulted in most churches becoming religious clubs for its members, divorcing us from the very mission in the world to which Jesus called us.

You talk a lot about "transformation." What should that look like in the Church and what does it look like in yours?

As evangelicals when we read the Bible we get very excited about the Philippian jailer getting saved. But we forget that Philippi itself was transformed! Think of how much of the New Testament is about what God was doing in the cities of their day. I am as committed as ever to the salvation of every soul. But it bothers me that even in the case of many of our largest churches, there is not a lot of evidence that the community around them is being transformed.

I have only been at my church, First West in West Monroe, La for a few years but I believe we are going to be a lab for what it would look like if the churches of a community lived together like God is real. We already have over 100 churches committed to the same vision: "to see the spiritual, cultural and physical transformation of our community so visible it can't be missed." We are working together with city leaders, business leaders, education leaders, and churches to bring the transformative power of the Gospel into the real issues of our community. I could write forever about this. We are committed together to break down barriers that have divided us and see with our eyes what a city can become. We are changing the metrics of the way we measure success as a church to reflect this vision. If we have more butts in the seats but more drugs on the streets we have failed.

You are known for being a part of a collegiate revival movement in the 90s. What would revival look like today?

I don't know. I think one of the mistakes of many of those who love and pray for revival has been to expect God to do what He has done before. He is a Creator, thus unlikely to repeat Himself. The Great Awakenings brought so much change that many traditional Christians rejected them. If we want revival we better begin to pray for God to change everything. Normally we just want Him to change things back to the way we were most comfortable with. I do believe that revival always requires a movement of prayer. At our church we have determined to meet and pray like we believe in God. We call our prayer service "Destiny." I told our people that we were going to ask God to do more than we could imagine and if he didn't we could all become atheists and play a lot more golf! That may sound presumptuous but since God told us in Ephesians 3:20 that He would do that, we have decided to believe Him! And we are seeing Him do things we have never dreamed of! I long to see the next Great Awakening. What happened in Brownwood, Texas in 1995and 1996 changed me forever - and continues to bear fruit all over the world.

My guess would be that if God moves powerfully in our day it will be in the marketplace and schools, likely among young people and young adults, and very possibly apart from most of our established churches.

You address both believers and unbelievers in this book. So what impact do you hope the book has on believers and unbelievers?

I hope unbelievers would hear me as a friend, or at least a potential friend, and consider if they have rejected the wrong God - the God of hatred, anger, isolation and institutionalism that they think we want them to believe in. I am an atheist too when it comes to that God!

I hope believers will revolt against what we have made of Christianity and move together into the awesome, passionate, scary-but-worth-it journey of living like God is real. That's my hope!

Hit John with your questions in the comments. And don't bother with those softball questions. :)

Between Two Worlds includes quotes from my time on the radio yesterday. The full details are here.

Robbie Sagers wrote:

Why do so many people say that they like Jesus, but not the church? And how can Christians go about changing that perception?

Dan Kimball, Kevin DeYoung, and Ed Stetzer joined guest-host Russell Moore yesterday on the Albert Mohler Program to talk about how unbelievers view the church, and how the people of Christ can reach lost men and women--those at the coffee shop, or sitting next to you on the bus, or those working in the cubicle adjacent to yours right now--with the only gospel that saves.

DeYoung and Kimball are both quoted. Dan and I have been friends for years and I appreciate his perspective. Kevin and I have not yet met, but we are speaking together and a forthcoming Reformed Church in American "classis" in Grand Rapids, so I look forward to meeting him. I have enjoyed his writings.

Robbie quotes my comments about authenticity here:

I think that authenticity is basically a simultaneous admission that I'm imperfect, in need of the work of Christ and the cross, but at the same time sharing that struggle in that journey along the way... I think that authenticity is built from pastors and leaders, but also from everyday people who say, 'Here's what Christ has done, how he's changed me, how the gospel shapes me, but I'm also the one who's filled with faults and failures--struggling, but trusting in the power of Christ.

You can listen to the whole program at the Albert Mohler show radio show site. Who knew that Russ Moore would have such a smooth radio voice?

And, in another post, Robbie also quoted me bringing some stats:

We asked a total of 1,000 twenty-something unchurched people; 900 American, 100 Canadian. And we compared them to a sample of 500 older unchurched (30 or above). ... And what we found is that yes, there are negative views of the church, two-thirds saying the church is full of hypocrites, people who do one thing and say another. But there was also great openness that's there. One of the questions that we asked them to agree or disagree with was: "I would be willing to study the Bible if a friend asked me to?" Among twenty-somethings, 61-percent said, "Yes." Among their older counterparts of 30 and above, 42-percent said, "Yes." That was a statistically significant difference saying there is something going on, there is an openness that's there. So we're seeing that as an opportunity that in the midst of some negative views of the church there is also some openness to the things of God.

This data comes from Lost and Found: The Younger Unchurched and the Churches that Reach Them (B&H 2009).

Thanks to Russ and Robbie for the invitation.